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lfdasilva
Community Member

What should I do when the client ask for a test (to be solved in 4 days) before hiring?

Hey Guys,

 

I have worked in 11 projects so far, and until this moment no one has asked me for doing tests.

 

But yesterday I got a match with a job proposal and the client asked me to do a test for him.

 

"**Edited for community guidelines**"

 

Is it allowed by the Upwork platform?

What about a "normal client" asking for it?

Or, what about if the Upwork asks for a test like this one? 

 

I have a cool and complete portfolio with more than 50 Data Science / Machine Learning projects and web apps, I have a great position on the rank on the biggest Data Science platform, so, I'm not open for doing tests or free work to nobody... But I become really surprised by this request because I have left the "traditional jobs" exactly because of a lot of dumb tests, and now, it happened to me on Upwork; 

 

If you already have the experience, portfolio, reviews, a good JSS, and so on... Would you do the test?

 

I would love to hear more from your freelancer fellows! 

 

Best Regards, 

26 REPLIES 26
lysis10
Community Member

#1 makes it sound like a scam.


Jennifer M wrote:

#1 makes it sound like a scam.


No, it isn't. It was requested by the Upwork team;

 

I was wondering, what we should expect from "normal" clients if Upwork uses this type of approach to hiring freelancers?


Leonardo F wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

#1 makes it sound like a scam.


No, it isn't. It was requested by the Upwork team;

 


I think you need to very clearly understand whether this is really a job for Upwork or whether the Upwork team is really one of their talent specialists gathering candidates for a client. If it's the latter, it says absolutely nothing about whether this is a scam or not. If the end client really is Upwork, well, Upwork should know it's against their TOS to ask for a free sample.

 

Take a look at how many people they are interviewing. If it's a bunch, there's a good chance they are aiming to get their whole project done for free with these samples.

 

That all said, I will often do small (1–2 hours worth) samples for free if the opportunity looks like it will be a lucrative one. I rarely do paid samples.

 

 


Wes C wrote:


I think you need to very clearly understand whether this is really a job for Upwork or whether the Upwork team is really one of their talent specialists gathering candidates for a client. If it's the latter, it says absolutely nothing about whether this is a scam or not. If the end client really is Upwork, well, Upwork should know it's against their TOS to ask for a free sample.

 

Take a look at how many people they are interviewing. If it's a bunch, there's a good chance they are aiming to get their whole project done for free with these samples.

 

That all said, I will often do small (1–2 hours worth) samples for free if the opportunity looks like it will be a lucrative one. I rarely do paid samples.


Yeah, it's directly from an Upwork official position... I though exactly the TOS question, because of when I did the readiness test we had a similar question there; 

 

They are interviewing 5 people to the position... And one of them is me, and I'm out because I declined to do the test because I know my field and I know how hard is to find people with a cool portfolio and so many experiences, and I have realized since the last year that when people can't see the notorious knowledge that I have on this field, the position isn't to me. 

 

I have an interesting analogy that can explain my point about tests... It's like someone ask Messi to do some kicks to see if he can score a goal, ignoring all the Messi history and also, all matches that he played on TV; 


Leonardo F wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

#1 makes it sound like a scam.


No, it isn't. It was requested by the Upwork team;

 

I was wondering, what we should expect from "normal" clients if Upwork uses this type of approach to hiring freelancers?


[ x ] Doubt

[   ] No doubt


Jennifer M wrote:
[ x ] Doubt

[   ] No doubt


Sorry Jennifer, as I'm not a native English speaker, I think that I didn't understand what you mean with this comment heheh 

 

Are you making fun of me? hahah

 

Anyway, thank you for commenting.

jr-translation
Community Member


Leonardo F wrote:

Hey Guys,

 

I have worked in 11 projects so far, and until this moment no one has asked me for doing tests.

 

Is it allowed by the Upwork platform? Yes, as long as the client does not ask for a free test.

What about a "normal client" asking for it? What is a normal client?

Or, what about if the Upwork asks for a test like this one? Why shoudl Upwork ask?

 

If you already have the experience, portfolio, reviews, a good JSS, and so on... Would you do the test? I do paid tests all the time. Experience can be fake, portfolios useless if the client can not evaluate them, reviews are often useless because in some fields clients can not evaluate the work and thus a good JSS has no value at all.

 

I would love to hear more from your freelancer fellows! 

 

Best Regards, 


I do not mind test to show the client that I am good in my profession and not just good in selling my services.


Jennifer R wrote:


I do not mind test to show the client that I am good in my profession and not just good in selling my services.


It's your choice... I don't know how many projects do you have in your portfolio, but if every client that contacts me asks for a test, I will work all my life doing tests to people that can't understand my already done work.

 

I prefer ever to focus on people who can understand who I'm, my work and also, take in consideration my past experiences;

 

But sure, each person has your own opinion about it, in my opinion, it's absurd when considering the context... Mainly when/if it comes from the Upwork team.

Jennifer's comments should be read in line with the preceeding text.

She said she wouldn't mind provided the test is paid for.

Also, there are lingering doubts as to whether Upwork is actually the client asking you to do free work.

If that were to be the case, then Upwork would be violating their very own ToS.

That would be very brazen of them.

Hopefully a mod would jump in to defend themselves.

 


Abinadab A wrote:

Jennifer's comments should be read in line with the preceeding text.

She said she wouldn't mind provided the test is paid for.

Also, there are lingering doubts as to whether Upwork is actually the client asking you to do free work.

If that were to be the case, then Upwork would be violating their very own ToS.

That would be very brazen of them.

Hopefully a mod would jump in to defend themselves.

 


Thank you very much for your answer Abinadab;

 

It's a position to work directly with the Upwork team...

 

I have asked her: 

1) Yes, I can commit to it!
2) a. Yes, I can do the test... It's a paid test or it's without charging?
b. what do you mean by bandwidth? Are you asking about my connect quality?

 

Her answer was:

For 2) a. it's part of the interview process. Instead of just asking some theoretical questions, we want to evaluate the candidates via a small hands-on project.

b. "bandwidth" here means if you have time for this task for the next several days. 🙂

 

So, they are asking me to commit for some days in their project/test to so, they decide if I'm or not a good fit, without considering all my past projects/work/reviews and so on... And an interesting detail, It's to a senior position... 

 

I have reported it in the chat, and I hope to understand if it's legal or not...

Are they asking for this test for free? IME, Upwork pays for tests.


Jennifer M wrote:

Are they asking for this test for free? IME, Upwork pays for tests.


Yes, they are asking for a free test and it was very surprising to me... I have quoted my question and her answer about the test.

 

 As she said, it's a "small hands-on project"... It's like when your client says that something is very simple, easy, or "just a detail" hehehehe

 

We all are used to work with people that say this type of stuff, and in general, it's not a good experience.


Leonardo F wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

Are they asking for this test for free? IME, Upwork pays for tests.


Yes, they are asking for a free test and it was very surprising to me... I have quoted my question and her answer about the test.

 

 As she said, it's a "small hands-on project"... It's like when your client says that something is very simple, easy, or "just a detail" hehehehe

 

We all are used to work with people that say this type of stuff, and in general, it's not a good experience.


There is nothing wrong with a paid test as part of the interview. Ask her to send you a job offer so you can start the test. So far she has been avoiding to answer the question whether the test is free or paid.


Jennifer R wrote:
There is nothing wrong with a paid test as part of the interview. Ask her to send you a job offer so you can start the test. So far she has been avoiding to answer the question whether the test is free or paid.

I'm open to doing a paid test Jennifer but it's not the case.

 

When I asked her if the test would be paid she answered:

"it's part of the interview process. Instead of just asking some theoretical questions, we want to evaluate the candidates via a small hands-on project."

 

 


Leonardo F wrote:

Jennifer R wrote:
There is nothing wrong with a paid test as part of the interview. Ask her to send you a job offer so you can start the test. So far she has been avoiding to answer the question whether the test is free or paid.

I'm open to doing a paid test Jennifer but it's not the case.

 

When I asked her if the test would be paid she answered:

"it's part of the interview process. Instead of just asking some theoretical questions, we want to evaluate the candidates via a small hands-on project."

 

 


She did not answer the question. A paid test can be part of the interview process. Tell her to send you can offer for the test. My guess is she might be trying to get free tests, but until she clearly write, the test won't be paid she did nothing wrong. It is frustrating but so far she has not violated the ToS.

It is interesting that no mod or any Upwork employee has come forward to verify if Upwork is sticking to its own ToS or not. 

 

Allthough I am against unpaid tests in principle, there is a downside to doing paid tests with a view to landing a more lucrative job afterwards. Doing a paid test requires an official contract and the feedback could be very negative if a client were to decide to go with another freelancer. 

 

However, I would not agree to doing a free test as part of an interview process, unless it was with a private client, or unless (in the case of editing or translation) I could choose,at random, a passage to work on from the client's project. 

 

 


Nichola L wrote:

It is interesting that no mod or any Upwork employee has come forward to verify if Upwork is sticking to its own ToS or not. 

 

Allthough I am against unpaid tests in principle, there is a downside to doing paid tests with a view to landing a more lucrative job afterwards. Doing a paid test requires an official contract and the feedback could be very negative if a client were to decide to go with another freelancer. 

 

However, I would not agree to doing a free test as part of an interview process, unless it was with a private client, or unless (in the case of editing or translation) I could choose,at random, a passage to work on from the client's project. 

 

 


 

I agree with you. 

 

After she confirmed that it's a free test I declined the position... but I think that they could have an option for this type of question, for instance, paying a fixed-price project to the people that will do the test and giving neutral feedback to the guys, idk

 

I think that Upwork needs to take care because sometimes it can seem like an Uber director that only use the traditional taxis lol

 

My opinion about tests changed when I realized that all times where I was hired I didn't any test, and all times that I did tests, I rarely got an answer-back... So I started to think about it, and I decided to start to ask two basic things:

- I will have access to the other candidate tests? 

- Could you please explain what will be the criteria to measure the projects? 

 

So, all of them said that I will not have access to the other candidate tests and I discovered that the didn't have a criterion to select the projects... So, I decided to focus on building my own portfolio/projects, start to freelancing and never more do a test; 

 

Since I started to freelancing it was the first time that I was requested for doing a test, and curiously, it was by the Upwork team 

 
 
 
 
 


Jennifer R wrote:
She did not answer the question. A paid test can be part of the interview process. Tell her to send you can offer for the test. My guess is she might be trying to get free tests, but until she clearly write, the test won't be paid she did nothing wrong. It is frustrating but so far she has not violated the ToS.

Yes, she answered, but not in a clear way, but she clearly suggests that it is free as it's a part of the interview process, so it's no paid.

 

Upwork has all our data, can easily access our links, projects, feedback, and so on... If they can't do a good choice with all information that they have, we can't understand the function of the JSS and other metrics or is the JSS, and the rules are applying and used only by "common clients"?

 

To a Senior position, it doesn't seem reasonable to me, and it's not a good example for our clients to follow... Otherwise, we will work as freelancers but we will be treated as the same bureaucracy of an employee, but without the benefits of an employee and doing a new test to every job that we apply;

 

Doing it this way seems like they don't trust on his own platform and scores, at least to me. 

 

lenaellis
Community Member

Hi Leonardo and others,
 
I can confirm that clients are allowed to ask freelancers to complete a short skills assessment as a part of an interview process. It cannot be any part of the work the freelancer is actually being interviewed for and should be solely to assess the freelancer's skills before hiring.

-Lena
Untitled

A skills assessment is basically an exam, a test, in the academic sense of the word.

It usually doesn't last four days, and isn't the same thing as sample, custom unpaid work, which is what the OP purports was asked of him.

 

ETA: Much of this thread has been deleted for community guidelines, so it's getting harder to make sense of the thread. But from what the OP reported before the mods weighed in, it didn't sound like an online exam the client wanted to feed him.

 

It is also possible the OP needs to get a better of understanding of what exactly was asked of him.

If he didn't know that "bandwidth" has another meaning not related to the internet, it is very likely a lot else got lost in translation.


Abinadab A wrote:

A skills assessment is basically an exam, a test, in the academic sense of the word.

It usually doesn't last four days, and isn't the same thing as sample, custom unpaid work, which is what the OP purports was asked of him.

 

ETA: Much of this thread has been deleted for community guidelines, so it's getting harder to make sense of the thread. But from what the OP reported before the mods weighed in, it didn't sound like an online exam the client wanted to feed him.

 

It is also possible the OP needs to get a better of understanding of what exactly was asked of him.

If he didn't know that "bandwidth" has another meaning not related to the internet, it is very likely a lot else got lost in translation.

 

The first definition of the project was a "time-bounded take-home data analysis task.", and after my question, it was defined as a "small hands-on project"; 

 

I think that doesn't matter if it's an assessment or if it's a sample of free work... Both will take a lot of my free time to do... And my question is exactly about it, I don't care about the type of the question but about my time spend to it

 

Anyway, I prefer to work in a "real-world" problem that makes sense than in an academic no-sense task or a "whiteboard" and this type of crazy assessment. 

 

And about the bandwidth, my question makes sense in the context of my work. 


Leonardo F wrote:

And about the bandwidth, my question makes sense in the context of my work. 

Great points, but may I pick you on the bandwidth one.

I saw the context in which your contact person asked whether you have enough bandwidth for the task.

Most users of English as a first or native language won't have even the slightest doubt that she wasn't talking about your internet connection, but about whether you have enough time, space, mental headroom for the project.

But it's great you asked her.

It's what you should do when you are not sure what your client means.

Native English clients can easily forget that when speaking with freelancers from non-English climes, it is very important to not use unnecessary idioms, patois and other expressions open to double interpretation.

Hopefully, this thread will serve as a reminder to all clients who stumble upon it.

 

Now coming to your latest update. What you have described sounds like free sample work, and not a mere skills assessment test. 

From what you have described, the client (Upwork) is in violation of their very own ToS.

Looks like they should ban themselves.


Lena E wrote:
Hi Leonardo and others,
 
I can confirm that clients are allowed to ask freelancers to complete a short skills assessment as a part of an interview process. It cannot be any part of the work the freelancer is actually being interviewed for and should be solely to assess the freelancer's skills before hiring.

-Lena

So, what's the function of the JSS system, the community(clients) reviews, portfolio, achievements, past experience and earn money, and so on? It doesn't have any importance? 

 

If we think about a "common client" that don't have all data, metrics, and information, or even can't understand the information, it can make sense to request a test, but it sounds very strange to me as Upwork hirer, for instance, I didn't know that I could do it to other freelancers, exactly because of it's a freelancer platform. 

 

 


Lena E wrote:
I can confirm that clients are allowed to ask freelancers to complete a short skills assessment as a part of an interview process. 

Since when? What's "short?"

 

Free work is free work, but at the end of the day, freelancers are free to decide whether they want to invest some time to jump through some loops to potentially grab a very large contract.

 

Enterprise clients have always had more leeway, that does not mean rules have changed, it just means different rules apply to different levels of clients.

 

I don't see this convenient little rider about  "short skills test" being allowed  written anywhere in Upwork's ToS - but I am happy to be corrected. 

If an unpaid "short skills test" is allowed, then "short" should be defined for every category. I have nothing really against this, but it needs to be clarified. 

 


Nichola L wrote:

I don't see this convenient little rider about  "short skills test" being allowed  written anywhere in Upwork's ToS - but I am happy to be corrected. 

If an unpaid "short skills test" is allowed, then "short" should be defined for every category. I have nothing really against this, but it needs to be clarified. 

 


Nichola, I'm glad you chimed in here because I was thinking the same thing. Mod, could you please point out where in the ToS this "skills assessment" is permitted, and also could we please define it? 

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