What to do about 'Lying' clients and Long term good clients with 'no' work.

[evelyn2509]

Hi Upwork Family,

I am hoping, you will suggest me what to do as I am very much hurt by a couple of things happened with clients and how my scores came down. Also, I have a couple of clients who still like to assign me work when it is available, hence, will not end the contract. I don't work anywhere else and I am worried because of these comments and scores, I won't get new clients as they will believe the written words instead of my work efficiency.

I am going to give 4 examples of lying clients:

The author planned to change the content of the book at the end of the project; before that, they asked me to add pictures and offered to pay extra. I formatted the book and even proved it is ready to upload. They wouldn't respond for days; then after a lot of follow up, I don't get paid extra for the extra work, in spite of accepting the cover design is good and it wasn't my fault 'they give a negative review'.
 

The client asked for simple proofreading (70k words) and mentioned everything is going well during the regular update; again no response for a week. All of the sudden the contract is paused and then again, noresponse and then ends it. At the end of the project, says - I didn't put effort at all. So, I explained it in the review, that 'I was asked for simple proofreading and someone else would work with the author again' later the client changes the 'stars' leaves me a personal message that I have changed the feedback and 'let's leave it that'.
The client is happy for months, happy with all the documents but the last one, but says that's fine, only two changes were required and all is well. Then, disappears for more than a month, after the request, he pauses the contracts and after more follow up, ends the contract and mentions that my proficiency wasn't meeting their expectations. Attachment of the last assignment. Later, I came to know that was about my knowledge related to gaming not about my language.

This client deserves a cake. In spite of clearly telling I am a native speaker (part British & part Indian) since my dad's a 'white' British and I am from England, still studying in Oxford. After writing nearly 150 articles on shorter deadlines, the client realises that I am not a native English speaker, hence must not be paid the 'usual price'.
 

And then we have clients who like to continue working with us - why does Upwork's algorithm, reduces our score based on this point. I believe the scores should only reflect 'stars' given by the clients on the project that has ended not on the jobs in progress.

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Evelyn,

I can advise you to learn how our payment protections works, please read this help articles: Upwork Payment Protection, Hourly Protection for Freelancers and Fixed-Price Protection for Freelancers. 
For fixed price contracts, make sure all of the funds are funded on your milestone. You can submit your work and even if the client is unresponsive the funds will be transferred to you after 14 days if no actions are taken on the milestone.

You can also always send this details via ticket to our customer support and our team will review the client.

[evelyn2509]

Thank you for the suggestion, Goran. I will keep that in mind for the next projects.

[hfspeegle]

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@Evelyn H wrote:

Hi Upwork Family,

I am hoping, you will suggest me what to do as I am very much hurt with a couple of things happened with clients and how my scores came down.

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I'm a little confused here. You're saying you are a native English speaker, yet your first sentence is nowhere near correct. A native anglophone would never use phrases like these.

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@Evelyn H wrote:

4. This client deserves a cake. In spite of clearly telling I am a native speaker (part British & part Indian) since my dad's a 'white' British and I am from England, still studying in Oxford. After writing nearly 150 articles in shorter deadline, the client realises that I am not a native English speaker, hence must not be paid the 'usual price'.

Do you mean this client "takes the cake?" Again, you don't sound anything like a native speaker. I'm not saying your English is bad, but you obviously write like someone for whom English is a second language.

[evelyn2509]

 Hi Heath,

Thank you for your reply.

"I am hoping, you will suggest me what to do as I am very much hurt by a couple of things happened with clients and how my scores came down."
There was a typo, I admit... I didn't read the post twice before submitting as I was looking for suggestions. I should have been aware that the community would certainly point out my mistakes before offering help.

I added 'deserves' deliberately. 

I was born the UK and have been there for 28 years. 

[tlsanders]

Evelyn, I don't think anyone is looking to point out your mistakes instead of helping. When you are offering writing services and your clients are not happy, the fact that your writing here is poor and includes many errors common to non-native speakers is certainly relevant.

[evelyn2509]

 Thank you, Tiffany. I typed the post very fast and I know there are typos and missing articles. However, my work has always been 100% error free, every time, as I have been doing for 13 years. When I write I do need to pay extra attention due to my TBE. I accept your comment, but I suppose I will have to put proof that I am a native English speaker. 🙂 

[iaabraham]

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@Evelyn H wrote:

I suppose I will have to put proof that I am a native English speaker. 🙂 

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Yes, proof would help, because your posts here aren't doing you any favors. 

*Edited: also, what's up with having 2 locations on your profile? Is that a new feature I'm not aware of?

[evelyn2509]

Yes, I suppose a family picture or my University card. 

I don't want to give my personal details. I just needed a suggestion. The answer to your 2nd point is - My parents are divorced, my mum is very very ill since she returned to India and I am taking care of her after leaving my job at Dell. 

Thank you!

[iaabraham]

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@Evelyn H wrote:

Yes, I suppose a family picture or my University card. 

Nope, you need to add language-related certification if you really are a native English speaker. E.g., one of the English-related ones listed here: https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/215650138-Add-Certifications-to-Your-Freelancer-Profile...

But Tiffany is right, ticks and certificates won't do anything if your writing work doesn't demonstrate your proficiency.

I don't want to give my personal details. I just needed a suggestion. The answer to your 2nd point is - My parents are divorced, my mum is very very ill since she returned to India and I am taking care of her after leaving my job at Dell. 

Unless Upwork rules have changed (you never know), you should have only one location listed on your profile - the one where you officially reside and are legally allowed to work.

[tlsanders]

Evelyn, it isn't about proving that you are or are not a native speaker. Your writing includes many telltale signs of a non-native speaker. There may be some other reason for that, but it won't matter to a client that you can prove you are a native speaker if you don't write to the standard they have in mind when seeking one.

[evelyn2509]

So far, none of my clients mentioned anything about my language. As I have always spoken to them face to face on the video calls, before we had the contract confirmed. The issues I had were with the graphics work and the payment for the extra work I had to do and nothing more. We have so many dialects in English; I have been studying about them in depth and I know what you mean too. I actually, love the way you are positively trying to help. I appreciate it.

[razivbazaz]

Hello,

The first thing I will point out is...you wrote that you are partly british as your father is a white guy and your studying in OXFORD University. But honestly, your complete post here does not give me any feel that your the student of OXFORD university.

Secondly, In all your cases, client was absconding and will suddenly appear to find fault in your work. Now what is the solution?? Obviously as the moderator pointed out some links which are general guidelines but doesnt guarantee you any payment in cases...

a) Its a fixed price contract and you have submit work for approval. And clients simply denies the work. Whats next?? Create a dispute and prove that you have successfully delieverd the work. Client will provide rebuttals to protect himself. And if this continues, you go through Arbitration where both parties agree to pay a non-refundable fees of 291 USD.

My opinion: If you really dont have strong evidence and client is smart enough, they can run away with your work for free. This method lacks.

b) If its an hourly contract and you have updated manual hours. In this case, if client denies, the same situation applies as the fixed price.

c) If its an hourly contract and worked using tracker. Then you will be definitely paid either by client or the upwork. And client may raise the dispute here too, but atleast you have the money in your pockets and client will be active to settle stuff than to avoid.

Overall its my opinion and experience. I usually take on hourly jobs using tracker to be on safer side. And minataining consistent communication is a step towards understanding the client. Even if a work is half way mark, or there is no update to offer client, I believe you should still maintain the communication and update on where you stand.

[evelyn2509]

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@Rajiv B wrote:

Hello,

The first thing I will point out is...you wrote that you are partly british as your father is a white guy and your studying in OXFORD University. But honestly, your complete post here does not give me any feel that your the student of OXFORD university.

Secondly, In all your cases, client was absconding and will suddenly appear to find fault in your work. Now what is the solution?? Obviously as the moderator pointed out some links which are general guidelines but doesnt guarantee you any payment in cases...

 'I don't understand why would you say that! It sounds very rude.' It's a shame that you have to feel it, to know what others do.  I do appreciate your suggestions. Thank you so much for your time. I do mean it.

About your second response: None of the clients absconded. They kept delaying their replies when the project came to an end and they lied at the end of the project. I was pretty new to Up work at that time and it took me a while to understand the work process. However, I was given then daily updates, sending the work attachments and also received replies 'That's good' 'You're doing great' and all that.

Anyway, I think I have got my answers. I appreciate every one of them.

[razivbazaz]

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@Evelyn H wrote:

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 It's a shame that you have to feel it, to know what others do.  I do appreciate your suggestions. Thank you so much for your time. I do mean it.

 Its actually a shame that your still protecting yourself. I would never hire a content writer with this level of communication.

[evelyn2509]

Rajiv, what am I exactly protecting myself from? I believe the interviews I give will tell the clients if I am good enough. 

[petra_r]

Evelyn, with all due respect your clients did mention it and your English does not real like native English. Add to that the terribly confusing location info on your profile, and your contradictory claims of being at Oxford University and your profile saying you graduated from Oxford University 5 years ago..... no wonder you struggle.....

[evelyn2509]

Petra,

I am still studying there. I haven't put anything misleading on my profile and I am always honest with all my clients and speak with them on the video call before I start the job. The issues were related to the payment and graphics work. The recent comment about my proficiency was about the 'gaming terminologies' and I have already talked about it to the last client.

I was typing the text on my phone and very fast. Hence, the typos and missing articles. 

Thank you. 

[zoomconcepts]

Actually it doesn't matter whether you're a native speaker or not. If you offer writing / proofreading services, and your language level there matches what's in these posts, you'll get dinged - either with feedback, or clients will want to renegotiate rates, rightly so. And it's not typos and articles - it's sentence structure that even I consider suspect, and I'm ESL. Probably focus on that part first. 

[petra_r]

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@Bojana D wrote:

Actually it doesn't matter whether you're a native speaker or not. If you offer writing / proofreading services, and your language level there matches what's in these posts, you'll get dinged - either with feedback, or clients will want to renegotiate rates, rightly so. And it's not typos and articles - it's sentence structure that even I consider suspect, and I'm ESL. Probably focus on that part first. 

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She even misspelled India on her profile.

If this is someone with a Masters degree from Oxford University I’d be most surprised.

• Her poor feedback is the clients’ fault,
• Her English is the phone’s fault,
• Her account hold is because she posted on the forum, not because her details and reality don’t match. 

[evelyn2509]

I didn't misspell India on purpose. It wouldn't let me add an extra letter and that happened when I created my profile. Please don't speculate, what you don't see or know.

Thanks for everything else.

[katrinabeaver]

And now it will be the community's fault if she loses her profile. 

[colettelewis]

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive" (Marmion, Sir Walter Scott)

[evelyn2509]

I have spoken to all my clients and provided my sample works before I was offered the job. No one is responding to my queries. Instead, they are trying to me nail me down, make an issue and defame me. I am sure, everyone has their personal reasons to work from home and I have mine. I am a citizen of the UK and I did pursue my masters in one of the prestigious universities in the world. I have been teaching ESL too. I know the proficiency I possess. I certainly didn't need anyone to put a label on it. What type of community is this? I have asked for a video call from the support centre for the proof they would need. 

My account has been suspended because of this post. I can't pay the bill or get anything for Christmas because of this wonderful community.  I have been fighting battles that I can't even share. So, thank you, all you wonderful people. If I lose this account and my contracts and my source of income, I will not be able to see the next sunrise but that's all right. Everyone here is very nice people. I wish you all the best.

[kochubei_valeria · Accepted solution]

All,

This thread has  been closed from further replies. 

Evelyn, please refer to the information in the support ticket to complete your account verification. 

Thanks.

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Evelyn,

Our team has asked you to finish our video verification process that will take up to 3-4 minutes only.
Just follow the steps on the ticket created for you and if you have any questions post them there and our agent will assist you further, you can access your tickets Here.

[evelyn2509]

Thank you for the reply. I will wait for the call.

[jmlaidlaw]

Evelyn,

You can protest all you like about using your phone and resultant "typos" and you can natter on about "dialects" and so on. None of the expert native English speakers here are fooled. As has been mentioned, your writing contains obvious "tells" that demonstrate that you are clearly NOT a true British native speaker of English. If you ARE, indeed, a British national, then it must be admitted that you grew up speaking some language other than the Queen's English as a mother tongue, and that, for all intents and purposes, English is your second language.

I am fairly confident that you will protest, become indignant, and contradict me. You will offer excuses for your non-native-sounding English. But I will not be convinced. I have studied linguistics, and I have worked professionally as a teacher of English as a Second Language (ESL). Your English is certainly passably fluent, but it is hardly that of a true native, British speaker.

[evelyn2509]

I will be going through the verification process. Thank you.

[katrinabeaver]

You are really bringing this on yourself by blaming everybody else. True, it is normal to have an unsatisfied client here and there, but you have given four examples. Your profile is not accessible now so I didn't get to see any of the comments. There comes a point where you have to maybe consider you're not doing something right or misrepresenting yourself. 

You are blaming the clients, you are blaming the community.  You say you provide 100 percent error free work all the time. I take issue with that. I am very successful here, I'm good at what I do, but no one can be 100 percent error free all the time. We are humans and we all make mistakes.