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Whats the purpose of 4 days delay when milestones funded long back are approved

inteconslive
Active Member
Ashwani K G Member Since: Jan 27, 2017
1 of 4

Hi Friends

 

Anyone has any idea here, what can be a good reason for applying waiting period of 4 days, when the funds are released by the buyers by releasing a milestone, which was funded long back (i.e. more than 4-5 days back)

 

I understand this delay in order to prevent Credit Card frauds, but that should be from the date when they funded, and not from the date of approving a milestone

 

It was not so, even during the days of elance.com. They used to with hold funds only if the milestone is funded and appropved with in the waiting period of 5 days.

 

Moreover withholding of funds is not necessary at all when the same funding source is used by the buyer which he has used in past. But no, Upwork is withholding funds no matter if the funding source is new or old and that too post approval, even if the funding was done by the buyer long back by assigining a milestone

 

Shouldn't it be immediately rectified so that funds are withheld for 4 or 5 days only from the date of funding (assiging) of milestone, and not from the date of release (approval), unless the date of release is not with the waiting period after funding

 

Also, shouldn't it be applied only when buyer uses a new funding source?

 

I look forward to everyone's thoughts and some action from Upwork policy makers

 

Cheers!

 

Ash

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
2 of 4

Ashwani K G wrote:

Anyone has any idea here, what can be a good reason for applying waiting period of 4 days,


It's 5 days and the good reason is to minimize fraud and Upwork and/or clients losing money.

 


Ashwani K G wrote:

It was not so, even during the days of elance.com


Considering Elance went down the drain haemorrhaging money, that is not a smart example of "best practices"

 


Ashwani K G wrote:

Moreover withholding of funds is not necessary at all


Clearly Upwork's risk management expets, who have access to the facts and numbers, disagree.

 

Remember that once funds are available, they can be immediately withdrawn by the freelancer and may be gone forever. 

The issue isn't just credit card fraud, it's losses due to things freelancers (or "clients" and freelancers together) get up to.

inteconslive
Active Member
Ashwani K G Member Since: Jan 27, 2017
3 of 4

Hi Petra, thanks for taking time and reply here...... I have some further views for the readers as replies to yours

 

"It's 5 days and the good reason is to minimize fraud and Upwork and/or clients losing money."

 

==> Whatever 4 or 5. Minimizing fraud is required too, but I said waiting has to be applied from the date of funding and not the date of approving. Whats the point of applying this wait on milestones which are funded weeks back? If 5 days is kept as a fraud reporting period, obviously that will be reported in that period when the buyer's payment method is charged, that is funding, and not when funds are released from thatr milestone. That is only an internal work flow with no transaction hitting the bank at that date

 

'Considering Elance went down the drain haemorrhaging money, that is not a smart example of "best practices"'

 

==> There must be numerous factors behind Elance going down, we can not directly view it as a factor. To my mind, it was just a fair practice. They were witholding the money for fraud protection from the date of funding

 

"Clearly Upwork's risk management expets, who have access to the facts and numbers, disagree."

 

==> Yes, and at the end, this question is meant for them only to to explain why they disagree. After all the fraud risk has to be defined in terms of certain days (which they have kept at 5 for now) from the date when the transaction has taken place in buyer's bank or CC account and not from a date when buyer releases the funds to freelancer

 

Consider 2 examples

 

1. Milestone funded on Jan 01 - released on Jan 31 - Funds access - Feb 05 - Total risk management days - 35

2. Milestone funded on Jan 31 - released on Jan 31 - Funds access - Feb 05 - Total risk management days - 05

 

How can the risk management experts see 35 days risk in first case and 5 days in second case?

 

These are just my thoughts Petra and I still appreciate that you shared yours. Thanks a lot once again Smiley Happy

 

Cheers!

 

Ash

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
4 of 4

Ashwani K G wrote:

If 5 days is kept as a fraud reporting period, obviously that will be reported in that period when the buyer's payment method is charged, that is funding, and not when funds are released from thatr milestone. That is only an internal work flow with no transaction hitting the bank at that date


You are way too fixated on credit card part of it, and are completely ignoring the "once a fraudulent freelancer has withdrawn the money, it is gone" part of it, which is the main problem.

 

Clients can generally get lost funds back via a chargeback, as can victims of stolen or hacked credit cards.


Upwork can't get such funds back, once they are withdrawn they are lost forever.

 


Ashwani K G wrote:

"Clearly Upwork's risk management expets, who have access to the facts and numbers, disagree."

==> Yes, and at the end, this question is meant for them only to to explain why they disagree.


They won't (and don't have to) "explain" as that would involve giving people ideas of how to use the platform fraudulently.

 


Ashwani K G wrote:

1. Milestone funded on Jan 01 - released on Jan 31 - Funds access - Feb 05 - Total risk management days - 35

2. Milestone funded on Jan 31 - released on Jan 31 - Funds access - Feb 05 - Total risk management days - 05

 

How can the risk management experts see 35 days risk in first case and 5 days in second case?


Because the moment of no return where freelancers are able to withdraw funds that they should not have is the moment when the funds are available to withdraw. While money is in escrow, it is safe. It can't go anywhere. If something turns out to be dodgy with it, neither the card-holder nor Upwork lose money because the money goes back to where it came from. It can't vanish.

 

5 days is what Upwrk considers an appropriate compromise, giving Upwork and clients a chance to notice and/or rectify things that aren't as they should be, before money is withdrawn, never to be seen again.

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