Re: Why I don't Upwork anymore

Avery O · ‎10-28-2019

I would gladly pay the new 20% fee if things actually got better but no. I can't get work anymore due to poor rating system.

I had a client who actually was a middle man. And had no idea what they were doing. I would ask for clarifications and get no answer back. I even asked him

**edited for Community Guidelines**

Then he ensured me that my comments ARE reaching the client and that all the delays are because of the clients.

**edited for Community Guidelines**

Then later he admitted that they were NOT getting my comments.

**edited for Community Guidelines**

Project basically ended with me waiting for client's feedback. Then got the following rating from the middle man.

Because of this, I have 80% job completion. And can't get any more contracts. There's nothing Upwork will do for me.

I've had enough.

John K · ‎10-28-2019

That's tough but at least you got real money out of it. If you're leaving, you should leave a reaction to that feedback, to give your side of the story, so other freelancers who see it will avoid the client, although many smart freelancers would avoid clients who leave feedback below 4.0 anyway.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

Brian C · ‎10-28-2019

Well, the problem is not the client. It's the system. It wont even let me leave feedback on that client anymore. And what good is it if they have something called "Private Feedback" from the clients that we can't even see or be aware of?

My criticism was towards Upwork and its unfair system. Not the specific client.

Brian C · ‎10-28-2019

"although many smart freelancers would avoid clients who leave feedback below 4.0 anyway."

Also, that's not a good system either. If I imagine I'm a client and just because I left low rating for really bad work (publically, NOT privately) and now all the good, smart freelancers would avoid me? How is that a good system? Upwork is bound to fail with such horrible system for BOTH clients and freelancers.

Andrei T · ‎10-28-2019

You had a chance to leave feedback for the client when the contract ended. Was that feedback honest?

Why would you want to change it once you saw the client's feedback?

At the moment you still have the possibility of replying to the feedback you got and tell your part of the story. Your initial post would seem just fine for that.

Brian C · ‎10-28-2019

I did not leave feedback for this client because I didn't feel the job was completed and had nothing to say. I actually didn't realize this job was closed for awhile. I didn't get the notification. I saw the he left 4 star (from the contract screen), I didn't find a way to leave feedback and I just let it go. And then started investigating when I saw that my JSS was 80%. And I'm not trying to change the feedback. That was John K's suggestion. Please read whole thread.

Once again, I'm just pointing out the flaw in the system. The overall review from this client still showed 4 stars as attached and I did not realize he left 2 star rating for communication until later. Which you can only see from your profile, NOT from contracts which is another issue with the system.

Jamie F · ‎10-29-2019

Brian C wrote:
I did not leave feedback for this client because I didn't feel the job was completed and had nothing to say.

Which was your decision. You were given the opportunity to leave feedback but you chose not to.

Feedback is double-blind for a reason - it prevents clients and freelances from leaving 'revenge' comments for each other. Incidentally, you could have spoken with the client regarding feedback and they could have changed it if they agreed.

As for private feedback, it is to prevent freelancers from hassling clients after leaving 'poor' feedback - it helps to encourage clients to leave more honest feedback. That's why the mod can not/will not tell you which one was poor.

Brian C · ‎10-29-2019

"it prevents clients and freelances from leaving 'revenge' comments for each other"

First of all, I'm not saying it wasn't my fault for leaving feedback on the client. But what does that have anything to do with this topic? And how would I leave "revenge" comment if I don't even know he is the one who lowered my JSS? Which is the point of this topic.

And your contradiction.

"As for private feedback, it is to prevent freelancers from hassling clients after leaving 'poor' feedback"

Yet you suggested I hassle the client.

"Incidentally, you could have spoken with the client regarding feedback and they could have changed it if they agreed."

Hence the flaw of the system. Hope that make sense.

At least you get browny point for staying on topic closest out of all the replies.

Jamie F · ‎10-29-2019

Brian C wrote:
"it prevents clients and freelances from leaving 'revenge' comments for each other"
First of all, I'm not saying it wasn't my fault for leaving feedback on the client. But what does that have anything to do with this topic?

It has this to do with the topic. Your words - "Well, the problem is not the client. It's the system. It wont even let me leave feedback on that client anymore." - I am explaining how the system is designed that way. It is not a flaw.

Brian C wrote:

And your contradiction.
"As for private feedback, it is to prevent freelancers from hassling clients after leaving 'poor' feedback"
Yet you suggested I hassle the client.
"Incidentally, you could have spoken with the client regarding feedback and they could have changed it if they agreed."
Hence the flaw of the system. Hope that make sense.

You have missed the point. The feedback I am referring to that you could have spoken with the client about is the visible feedback, not the private feedback. That you are moaning about the feedback they left highlights the need for a private feedback rating.

Brian C · ‎10-29-2019

"The feedback I am referring to that you could have spoken with the client about is the visible feedback, not the private feedback."

LMAO. You said the reason for private feedback is because they're afraid of hassling. So if I hassle him about visible feedback, wouldn't that encourage him for private feedback? And hence the contradiction? You get the point?

And I'm not moaning. I'm simply asking if that's fair. If I left you a private feedback here that degraded your ability to post without you knowing. Is that fair?

Brian C · ‎10-29-2019

"It has this to do with the topic. Your words - "Well, the problem is not the client. It's the system. It wont even let me leave feedback on that client anymore." - I am explaining how the system is designed that way. It is not a flaw. "

Again, that was reply to Mike K. Go quote what Mike K wrote.

Jamie F · ‎10-29-2019

Brian C wrote:
The overall review from this client still showed 4 stars as attached and I did not realize he left 2 star rating for communication until later.

Again, that's on you. The information was always available to you. It's not upwork's fault that you don't know how it works.

Brian C · ‎10-28-2019

Also, I am not 100% certain this client is the reason for 80% JSS. Because of the mysterious "Private Feedback" I don't know exactly who was secretly unhappy with my work. Maybe this client left me very good "Private Feedback"??? I hope you get my sarcasm here. I leave a bad feedback for crappy product on Amazon. Seller has chance to defend themselves with a reply which everyone can see. I don't leave "secret" feedback.

Avery O · ‎10-28-2019

Hi Brian,

I have responded to your post here that seems to have a similar theme to this thread. Other than what I have shared on my other post, please note that when a contract has ended, you should have received an email noting that the contract has ended, which encourages you to leave feedback for the client. If this isn't the case for you, you can update your notification settings on you Notification Settings page (Setttings > Notification Settings) to adjust your notification settings accordingly.

While I cannot identify which contracts exactly affected your Job Success score, but we recommend that you read up on this help article for more information on how your score is calculated, and this help article for more information on what factors may have affected your score.

~ Avery

Brian C · ‎10-28-2019

"While I cannot identify which contracts exactly affected your Job Success score" Wow really??? Neither can I. Good to know no one knows!!! Everything else you said is irrelevant to my post. Please try to understand what I'm saying here if you're going to reply.

Petra R · ‎10-28-2019

Brian C wrote:
"While I cannot identify which contracts exactly affected your Job Success score" Wow really??? Neither can I. Good to know no one knows!!! Everything else you said is irrelevant to my post. Please try to understand what I'm saying here if you're going to reply.

Well, it is becoming quite clear why 2 of your 6 clients marked you down for communication... Maybe work on those soft skills a bit?

What she meant is that she is not allowed to tell you, but it is perfectly obvious - the one with the really poor feedback had the main effect, the rest comes from the other contract where you were marked down.

I've never understood why people feel the need to make a song and dance over their decision not to use a website anymore.

You don't like it here and can't win any contracts? OK then. Close your acount and go elsewhere. Problem solved. No door-slamming needed.

Goran V · ‎10-28-2019

"Well, it is becoming quite clear why 2 of your 6 clients marked you down for communication..."

Exactly, the people with communication issue criticizes me for communication.

And you're not my client. I don't need to be soft. Which you're not either. At least you know who marked me down!

"What she meant is that she is not allowed to tell you,"

That SWOOSH sound is the point **Edited for Community Guidelines**

Brian C · ‎10-28-2019

Thank you Moderator for editing my inappropriate comment. Instead of doing it secretely. I know exactly what I did wrong. Hope you weren't pressured to make that edit. But don't you think it'd be great if there was private feedback on other users on this forum?

Petra R · ‎10-29-2019

Brian C wrote:
Also, I am not 100% certain this client is the reason for 80% JSS.

Are you really not 100% certain?

You have 6 completed contracts since 2016. The oldest one is outside the 2 year calculation window, so that leaves 5 in the past 24 months. 4 have good feedback, one has bad feedback. So I'd say it's pretty obvious where the culprit lies... 4 out of 5 makes 80%

Just a few more successfully completed contracts could push you up to 90%. Also, because that contract closed in June, it will fall out of your 6 month calculation window in December, so provided you have a few more contracts end successfully by them, it won't even count anymore.

The thing is, because you've had so few contracts, each one has a massive effect, but the flip side of that is that although one contract can drop you dramatically, one contract can also improve it significantly.

If I were you (and I appreciate that I'm not) I would do a few smaller, not too difficult contracts you can knock out of the park, and watch the way you communicate with clients. I get that clients can drive you mad, but at the end of the day a customer-centric attitude is paramount when you run a business selling services to clients.

You can fix this pretty easily (if you want to, that is.)

Brian C · ‎10-29-2019

"I would do a few smaller, not too difficult contracts you can knock out of the park, and watch the way you communicate with clients."

I am also glad that you're not me. Would you call that a solution or a punishment?

"customer-centric attitude is paramount when you run a business selling services to clients.:

I know that better than anyone. I run a successful business and this is just a side thing. But how can you be customer-centric if you don't have access to the feedback? That is the whole point of this thread. Not whether I'm likeable. I know I am an ass and I'm direct. But that's not what we're talking about here are we. We're talking about the system. Having someone criticize you without knowledge and let it effect your ability to work.

"You have 6 completed contracts since 2016. The oldest one is outside the 2 year calculation window, so that leaves 5 in the past 24 months. 4 have good feedback, one has bad feedback. So I'd say it's pretty obvious where the culprit lies... 4 out of 5 makes 80%"

That's not 100% LMAO. Not with the "PRIVATE" Feedback. Are you 100% certain others with 5 star didn't give me low "PRIVATE" feedback? Even the negative one averages to 4 star. That's 24 star out of 25. That's still 96%. So... are you still 100% sure?

Jamie F · ‎10-29-2019

Incidentally - I've had my JSS drop to around 75% before, through no fault of my own. I bought it up and it was clear that nothing was going to be done about it.

So, I stayed on the forum and continued to whine about it, blaming upwork, belittling the other forum members and saying how I am going to leave if I don't get my way.

Oh wait - no. That's a lie, I did none of that. I just got on with it. I started doing my best to write some killer proposals to find more work despite my low JSS. 2 of my current clients are with people that first hired me at that time, one of which is arguably the best client I have had.

I am now on 100% and top-rated, and I know that if my JSS does take a hit again, for whatever reason, it's down to me to do something about it - the same as with EVERY other freelancer on Upwork.

Brian C · ‎10-29-2019

"Oh wait - no. That's a lie, I did none of that."

"I am now on 100% and top-rated,"

I'm sorry, how did this turn into "ABOUT JAMIE F"???

Jamie F · ‎10-29-2019

Brian C wrote:
"Oh wait - no. That's a lie, I did none of that."
"I am now on 100% and top-rated,"

I'm sorry, how did this turn into "ABOUT JAMIE F"???

Blimey.

Never mind mate - as you were.

Brian C · ‎10-29-2019

"Never mind mate - as you were."

Thank you. Move along.

Brian C · ‎10-29-2019

"I would do a few smaller, not too difficult contracts you can knock out of the park"

And if I do that, would you say that system is working properly? If I do bunch of scrap work just to raise my JSS, isn't that an exploit of the system? Didn't the Moderator say the reason for Private Feedback was danger of exploiting the Public feedback? And now you're suggesting another exploit?

LOL All of you are full of contradiction and no real answers on whether the system is fair or not. That is the only question I've been asking and none of you were able to answer it. All of you are bashing on my personality or my client's feedback. And I'm the one with communication issue lol