Why Wont Upwork Refund Our Connects For Expired Jobs?

[designbycg]

Like the title says. 

We have to spend our money to apply for jobs that Upwork provides us, while taking a pretty solid cut of the profit, the least they can do is give us our connects back on jobs that the client posted and just forgot. Thats really not fair for us as freelancers.   

I love the connects system because it filters out designers who aren't serious, and helps from jobs being spammed, but it's a little flawed. I did some research on my old jobs, and over 50% of the jobs I applied for have been expired. Thats a good chunk of money just wasted. 

[varungs]

You are paying for a chance to be hired. You are not paying to be hired. The client can hire someone else, or can forget about the listing, or may simply hire on a different platform. It's just a cost of doing business.

[designbycg]

I understand that. I am not expecting to get hired on every job I bid on. Nor do I want my connects back on jobs that hire someone else. But while looking at past jobs, over 50% of the jobs (7 pages worth) I applied for expired with no actions taken by the client. 

I'm simply asking since Upwork already has a policy to refund connects for canceled jobs, or jobs they take down due to violation, why not include jobs that the clients posts, and never touch again. It will protect Freelancers from clients who aren't serious. (Not to mention, we are already losing valuable time by applying to these jobs). 

I also understand you can be picky with jobs you apply for (Ex. Only applying to payment verified clients, or clients with a good track record), but now you are taking away from the experience to new clients. They're not getting an opportunity to have quality, experienced designers apply to them. 

[tlbp]

Life is seldom fair. Capitalism even less so. Yet, we all are free to pursue a more profitable path if one can be found. Freelancers were finding leads well before Upwork existed. 

[tammni]

In other words - Upwork is just using desperate freelancers who can't find clients elsewhere and it's well justified because hey, that's how the life is. Unfair. 

Sure.  "Life is unfair so let's keep it that way." Upwork, is that your new slogan for freelancers? 

[a_lipsey · Accepted solution]

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Christian G wrote:

We have to spend our money to apply for jobs that Upwrok provides us, while taking a pretty solid cut of the profit, the least they can do is give us our connects back on jobs that the clinet posted and just forgot.

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Upwork doesn't provide you with jobs. Upwork provides you with a platform to find clients and bid on jobs. You pay to find clients and to bid. 

Jobs may expire for many reasons, not the least of which is that the client did not find any one that they liked for their job. Even when you do traditional marketing, not every piece will garner a high ROI. When I send out a marketing mailer, not every person I send it to will respond. I don't ask the printer or post office for money back on each piece I sent that didn't garner a response. I still used their service, which means I have to pay. 

If you got to bid on the job then Upwork provided the service to you in good faith and you have to pay. You get a refund when there is  TOS violation because it's like paying for a faulty product. You didn't pay for a faulty product. The client didn't hire you, and no, they didn't hire someone on Upwork, or maybe they did hire but never closed the job? There's loads of information you do not or cannot know. 

If no one was good enough for this client to hire, why should you get your connects back because you were not chosen? Why is that any different than them not hiring you and hiring someone else? 

[designbycg]

Well put Amanda! 

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. 

Although most expired jobs were posted with 0 activity by the client, as you mentioned, that's not Upwork's fault, and they have no way of knowing if there was another issue at hand.

[tlsanders]

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Christian G wrote:

Well put Amanda! 

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. 

Although most expired jobs were posted with 0 activity by the client, as you mentioned, that's not Upwork's fault, and they have no way of knowing if there was another issue at hand.

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It's also worth noting that Upwork bombards clients with emails about those who have bid on jobs, so it's entirely possible for a client to be monitoring applicants without ever taking any action that would register as the job posting being active. 

[dsmgdesign]

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Christian G wrote:

Like the title says. 

We have to spend our money to apply for jobs that Upwork provides us, while taking a pretty solid cut of the profit, the least they can do is give us our connects back on jobs that the client posted and just forgot. Thats really not fair for us as freelancers.   

I love the connects system because it filters out designers who aren't serious, and helps from jobs being spammed, but it's a little flawed. I did some research on my old jobs, and over 50% of the jobs I applied for have been expired. Thats a good chunk of money just wasted. 

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This WILL make me very unpopular among the other Community Guru's here, but I for one agree with you. The connects purchase system is still fairly new, and Upwork is working out the kinks. I don't think their intent was to charge freelancers to find clients and to bid, as Amanda said. I think the intent was to ensure freelancers were being selective in applying to jobs so that clients had a pool of freelancers who were the most qualified for their jobs. Looks like Upwork is now BETA testing returing connnects if the client closes the job or it expires without hiring anyone. I'm glad that Upwork is listening, because, although the Community Guru's don't like it, but there have been a lot of posts from Freelancers about this very same thing. Since it is completely free for clients to post jobs, there are clients out there who can and do abuse the system by posting jobs with absolutely no intent on hiring anyone when they post it.  So, I for one am glad Upwork is taking measures to provide a service that is just as fair for freelancers as it is for clients. 

So, to answer your question, I think Upwork will do this. Just give them time. Until that happens, there is something you can do to avoid clients who don't hire anyone. Look at their hire rate, and apply only to jobs with high hire rates. Some advise you only apply to jobs with 50%, but sometimes I will even go as far as only applying to jobs with 75% or higher hire rates. Also, look for active clients. Those are the ones that leave feedback often for their freelancers.  If you do that often enough, you should see your percentage of job expirations decrease greatly. 

[versailles]

Community Guru is the stupid label you get when you post enough messages here, that Upwork won't get rid of despite the fact that everybody is complaining about it. You have it, I have it, it doesn't mean anything at all and it certainly doesn't represent a group of people sharing common views.

[dsmgdesign]

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Rene K wrote:

Community Guru is the stupid label you get when you post enough messages here, that Upwork won't get rid of despite the fact that everybody is complaining about it. You have it, I have it, it doesn't mean anything at all and it certainly doesn't represent a group of people sharing common views.

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I see what your saying, and largely agree. I actually thought it was pretty funny when I ranked up to Community Guru. Lets be honest, most Community Guru's also happen to be experienced Upwork freelancers with active clients and regular earnings. So Community Labels aside, when it comes to the issue of purchasing connects, most (not all, but I think most) of the more experienced freelancers advocate for it and typically aren't terribly concerned about clients who never hire. Those newer freealancers who spend more money on connects with fewer results, are discouraged by those same clients.  Thus I stand by using that label in my reply, only on this issue of connects, because I think it's fair to say my opinion on this issue isn't the "popular" opnion shared by most (not all, but mosy) other experienced freelancers because as a Community Guru (haha), I've been on this board enough times to see the back and forth on the issue, and I think I have a pretty good feel for where most folks fall on both sides. Am I wrong? 

[lenaellis]

We are testing this out, you can find more information in our announcement post here: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Announcements/New-test-to-refund-Connects-on-no-hire-contracts/m-p/7...

[atreglia]

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David S M wrote:

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Christian G wrote:

Like the title says. 

We have to spend our money to apply for jobs that Upwork provides us, while taking a pretty solid cut of the profit, the least they can do is give us our connects back on jobs that the client posted and just forgot. Thats really not fair for us as freelancers.   

I love the connects system because it filters out designers who aren't serious, and helps from jobs being spammed, but it's a little flawed. I did some research on my old jobs, and over 50% of the jobs I applied for have been expired. Thats a good chunk of money just wasted. 

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This WILL make me very unpopular among the other Community Guru's here, but I for one agree with you.

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On the contrary.  I believe most people here would agree with you but have tired from the droves of  24/7 forum regulars reminding everyone that successful freelancers should not be concerned such trivial matters like throwing good money after bad.  It was one thing when connects were free.  However, once money is involved, no matter how small the amount, that changes everything; it's time to start being fair.  This is not supposed to be a gambling site and I am not here to play.

[prestonhunter]

Upwork should refund connects to all freelancers who submit proposals to jobs which end up never hiring anybody.