Why are jobs posts without a correct discription of the work needed allowed to be posted?

[sein_mac]

Why are jobs posts without a correct discription of the work needed allowed to be posted?

Seeems like a basic requirement that can easily be integrated into the posting criteria, so why is it not implemented?

UPDATE EDIT: I attached a screen shot but it was removed. The job post only said what type of Freelancer they want and gave no indication of what the work involved.

[datatraveler1]

I hope this post was meant as irony.

[NikolaS · Accepted solution]

Hi Sein,

Could you please click on my name and send me a PM with more information about the job posts you are referring to? I will be sure to look into your report and escalate it accordingly.

[sein_mac]

Thanks so much Nickola.

[sein_mac]

Why are jobs posts without a correct discription of the work needed allowed to be posted?

Seeems like a basic requirement that can easily be integrated into the posting criteria, so why is it not implemented?

This post says its looking to find a Freelancer - that hardly qualifies as job post. Surely if all client wants to do is find a Freelancer they should just the search bar. I am constantly seeing similar posts.
 
**Edited for Community Guidelines**

UPDATE EDIT: I attached a screen shot but it was removed. The job post only said what type of Freelancer they want and gave no indication of what the work involved.

[petra_r]

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Sein M wrote:

This post says its looking to find a Freelancer -

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No, it does not. It says he is looking for a medium level Audio Editing and Post Production Scecialist-

If the job post is not to your liking, you are free to scroll right past it.....

[sein_mac]

Thanks Petra, but really that doesn't anwser my question, or explain what kind of job the client is offering. -- type of freelancer needed does not = what kind of job is on offer.

This is not a job post. Its a request to find a particular kind of freelancer.


I did just as you sujested, I scrolled right past it, after flagging. Why would I apply to a job post that doesn't explain the job?

[petra_r]

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Sein M wrote:Why would I apply to a job post that doesn't explain the job?

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To identify the exact deliverables and close the deal? 

A job post is a start of a conversation.

Flagging that job post is also a complete waste of time and money. It does in no way violate any terms of service. I would rather that the fees I pay weren't wasted on Upwork staff having to wade through ridiculous flags.

[sein_mac]

Ok Petra lets see what Upwork says -- I can see we dont seem to agree on this. Thanks for your input

Can I ask you though how is it a waste of time or money to flag a post?  Surely its a waste of time, money and connects to apply for a job you arent sure you can or want to do?

[sein_mac]

Petra, again thanks for trying to help but I feel you might be missing the point:

"..If the job post is not to your liking, you are free to scroll right past it....."

I am also free to ask questions on what happens in the market place.  If we just ignore the parts we don't like how does that help anyone or keep the market place safe?

[sein_mac]

Petra, again thanks for trying to help but I feel you might be missing the point:

"..If the job post is not to your liking, you are free to scroll right past it....."

I am also free to ask questions on what happens in the market place.  If we just ignore the parts we don't like how does that help anyone or keep the market place safe?

[prestonhunter]

If a client posts an hourly job post, they may not need any more information than the type of person they want to hire.

But always, for all types of job posts, the better the job post is, the better the results will be in terms of finding great freelancers.

Writing effective job posts requires thought and practice. The original poster is correct if he has discerned the fact that some job posts are better than others.

[sein_mac]

Thanks Preston, I agree.  I am feeling a few requirements and more quality control on job posts would really benifit the entire market place. 

[2591126f]

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Sein M wrote:

Why are jobs posts without a correct discription of the work needed allowed to be posted?

Seeems like a basic requirement that can easily be integrated into the posting criteria, so why is it not implemented?

This post says its looking to find a Freelancer - that hardly qualifies as job post. Surely if all client wants to do is find a Freelancer they should just the search bar. I am constantly seeing similar posts.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

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It is desirable that Job posts contain sufficient information. It does have its benefits. But that is not possible for many people. May be they do not know sufficiently  about it(The freelancers are experts not the clients), OR are just lazy to do it.  But it is not as if all such jobs do not hire people. People get hired and paid for it on many such jobs.

Why would it make sense to close some job which would bring money.

For example: A Job post saying " Need someone for web development " does not have sufficient information. Somebody may be able to do a simple wordpress but may not be skilled enough for something like Youtube or Twitter.

It is  a waste of time  and efforts for Freelancer whose skills do not match the job.But Those kind of jobs also hire people. It requires extra effort to get  the required details. 

If you like apply & discuss with the client.If you do not like , just leave it. Somebody else will do it.Let somebody else earn then close the job.

[sein_mac]

Thanks Vivek I agree more information is desirable in a job post.  It is true that weak job posts will still have applicants and potentialy also generate hires, but I really feel having better requirements for job posts is hugely important to the effiecntcy and quality of the markety place right now.

Its a bit disrepectful to be honest if someone is too lazy to explain the work on offer, and freelancers are expected to pay with connects and time for a job post that is sub standard.  It also leaves the door wide open for potential problems later, if the work required is not clearly defined from the get go.

I undrstand that also it is sometimes dificult for a person to expalin a job fully but I really feel some kind of standardization is needed on this matter to help protect the quality of the market place.

[lysis10]

Just post a bid and ask questions if you think there is potential. Easy. Some clients have no idea what they are supposed to ask for. The winners will be able to extract info from the client and figure out if it has potential.

[sein_mac]

Great points thanks Jennifer. The job I saw didnt indicate what kind of work was involved, only the type of Freelancer they where looking for. I'd love to see the idea supported that as Freelancers we should only apply for jobs we know we can do, so I would like to know more about the work before making and submitting a proposal.

[prestonhunter]

Sein, this thread is not about me, but I can point out that often when I post jobs, I provide the COMPLETE task description... so complete that when I hire a freelancer, I don't talk to them. They follow the task description and send me the files.

This won't work for all types of jobs. But it works when I have commissioned original artwork such as illustrations, icons or posters, or hired writers to write content about specific topics.

I have received a lot of work from freelancers who I never talked to and I don't know if they read the tasks descriptions themselves or had somebody translate for them. They did great work because all details explaining the necessary parameters for the work were included in the post.

[richard_wein]

1. Upwork doesn't have people checking every job post,  because that would be uneconomical. 

2. Upwork does (sometimes) take down job posts that violate its rules AFTER those violations have been brought to its attention. But posting a vague job post does not violate Upwork's rules, as far as I know.

3. Might Upwork remove a job post that is flagged for being too vague? I don't know, but I doubt it.  Perhaps a moderator could answer that question. 

[sein_mac]

Thanks Richard for taking an interest. Upwork support have have said they will report and escalate this issue as needed.

Job posts that do not have clearly defined work or are incomplete are considered troublesome for many reasons and can be removed.

A mandatory form to fill out for job discription as part of job post application requirements could help.

There is no need for Upwork to uneconomically check every post. Automatic checks and balances can help hugely to improve the quality and safety of the market place. It is more then possible to prescreen posts with bot technology similar to resume prescreening called ATS (applicant tracking system) which rejects material not formated correctly before any human eye sees it.

Upwork have implemented a screening approach in other areas and I would love to see it happen in this area to.

[moonraker]

"medium level Audio Editing and Post Production Scecialist"

I'm going to stick my neck out here and suggest that they might be looking for somebody who can edit audio and is a specialist at post-production. And they are looking for somebody within a mid-range budget. 

Just a hunch.

[sein_mac]

Thanks Jamie that is correct. In addition to that information my understanding is work must be clearerly defined, which in this case it is not.

[moonraker]

I really think you're wasting the support team's time with this. 

They cost money - and Upwork is already losing money. 

[sein_mac]

Thanks Jaime for your thoughts. Upwork has expressed interest in investigating and resolving this issue. It is in the interest of maintainung a safe market place and for that reason a good use of time.

[moonraker]

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Sein M wrote:
Upwork has expressed interest in investigating and resolving this issue. 

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Or, more likely, they've given you the same boiler-plate response they do with most of the other 'suggestions' they get and have filed yours in a particular folder where it's unlikely to ever be seen again.

[geri_kol]

I agree wholeheartedly with Sein´s views on incomplete job posts and the need for Upwork to be more proactive and exacting in that regard. It already imposes a bunch of requirements that freelancers have to comply with, not to mention the significant fees we pay both in terms of Connects and commissions. (Can you imagine a job fair where candidates have to pay simply to talk to a client or a recruiter? This is exactly the behavior Upwork incentivizes when it encourages freelancers to submit bids to incomplete job posts to find out whether they are a good fit or even worth applying for.) So yes indeed, excercising some oversight towards careless/lazy clients who can´t be bothered to include sufficiently detailed job descriptions in their listings is something I would expect in exchange for the fees Upwork withholds from me. Sein, please keep us updated on how your complaint progresses.

[sein_mac]

Hi Gerganna.  Thank you so much for your interest and support.  I agree with you and beleave this is an important issue as it relates to the quality and safety of the market place for everyone.

I am happy to continue intereacting with this post for the time being. I have not made a complaint, just asked a question and reported a job post for not having clearly definable work outlined.

My understanding is freelancers should only apply for jobs that we know we can (and want) to do , which is not possible if work is not clearly defined in a job post.  When work is not clearly defined it is a flagable problem that Upwork asks to be told about, as it is not helpful to encourage job posts that don't clearly define the work from the very beginning.

Thank you.