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jmeyn
Member

Why does Upwork allow jobs without deliverables?

Why does Upwork allow a continously growing number of job postings without deliverables? It mostly affects fixed price jobs. Here's an example:

 

We need to translate a text from English to German language. This need to be done ASAP with a great precision and quality of translation.
We are looking forward to receiving your application.

 

No file attached, no scope mentioned, only a budget of $5. And, it's not the first time this client posts such a "detailed" job description. 

26 REPLIES 26
tlsanders
Member

My question is why so many adult professionals believe they need Upwork to allow or not allow so many things instead of just making their own judgments about postings like adult professionals.

It's just that this kind of sloppy RFPs is on the rise again. Why can't Upwork implement what we had on Elance?


@Joachim M wrote:

It's just that this kind of sloppy RFPs is on the rise again. Why can't Upwork implement what we had on Elance?


 You need to make a New Year's Resolution to let go of "what we had on Elance!"

 

It is gone. It is dead. It is the past. It is history.

 

It was a nice experiment which worked for a while, then failed, sunk, and burned. RIP.


@Petra R wrote:

@Joachim M wrote:

It's just that this kind of sloppy RFPs is on the rise again. Why can't Upwork implement what we had on Elance?


 You need to make a New Year's Resolution to let go of "what we had on Elance!"

 

It is gone. It is dead. It is the past. It is history.

 

It was a nice experiment which worked for a while, then failed, sunk, and burned. RIP.


 I agree, so let's say, like we have on other sites :-). The British freelancer site at least notifies the client that his RFP is missing the details necessary to prepare a proposal. 


@Joachim M wrote:

It's just that this kind of sloppy RFPs is on the rise again. Why can't Upwork implement what we had on Elance?


 Joachim . . . you know this won't happen . . . other than getting non-Elancers breathing fire and brimstone down your neck.

 

For some reason Upwork has eschewed not only all the good Elance features, but also the good oDesk features. Upwork is Upwork - sink or swim. ๐Ÿ˜ž

 

Actually, for us, it is neither sinking nor swimming - but wading - laboriously.

I know Nichola :-(. I was just so fed up and had to vent somehow. Less than 15% of my revenue originates from Upwork nowadays. Most of the business is direct followed by the British freelancer site. Upwork is third only.


@Joachim M wrote:

Most of the business is direct followed by the British freelancer site. 


Is that Posh Per Hour?

 

๐Ÿ™‚

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless


@Rene K wrote:

@Joachim M wrote:

Most of the business is direct followed by the British freelancer site. 


Is that Posh Per Hour?

 

๐Ÿ™‚


 Yes exactly. I didn't do many jobs there, but large ones ๐Ÿ™‚ And you never need connects/credits. I'm always invited by the site to quote without spending credits.


@Joachim M wrote:

@Rene K wrote:

@Joachim M wrote:

Most of the business is direct followed by the British freelancer site. 


Is that Posh Per Hour?

 

๐Ÿ™‚


 Yes exactly. I didn't do many jobs there, but large ones ๐Ÿ™‚ And you never need connects/credits. I'm always invited by the site to quote without spending credits.


Interesting. I may give it a (second) try. May I not?

 

With a cup of tea.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless

Maybe it's because Upwork is getting money from adult professionals and these professionals may to ask Upwork to improve service? Something like pre-moderation of job's description. I'm newbie here. I like Upwork's service. But I think, with 20% fees(I know about few levels but let's be honest - most of us pays 20%) it may be more better. I explain - I can choose good proposal. But I want think about how can I do a job, but not about is this proposal a job, or a joke, or a mistake. Especially it is important for newbies like me - without good job history I have to sent many proposals hoping that somebody will hire me. So, I have to spend many connects. And if task's description looks like something that I can do, but later I understand that it is not...it's sad. I think, that Upwork must filter such trash.


@Aleksej K wrote:

Maybe it's because Upwork is getting money from adult professionals and these professionals may to ask Upwork to improve service? Something like pre-moderation of job's description. I'm newbie here. I like Upwork's service. But I think, with 20% fees(I know about few levels but let's be honest - most of us pays 20%) it may be more better. I explain - I can choose good proposal. But I want think about how can I do a job, but not about is this proposal a job, or a joke, or a mistake. Especially it is important for newbies like me - without good job history I have to sent many proposals hoping that somebody will hire me. So, I have to spend many connects. And if task's description looks like something that I can do, but later I understand that it is not...it's sad. I think, that Upwork must filter such trash.


 Would you prefer to pay 30% or 40% fees so that Upwork could employ a stable of new employees to review each of the hundreds of thousands of job postings in advance so that you didn't have to spend a few seconds doing so yourself?


@Tiffany S wrote:

@Aleksej K wrote:

Maybe it's because Upwork is getting money from adult professionals and these professionals may to ask Upwork to improve service? Something like pre-moderation of job's description. I'm newbie here. I like Upwork's service. But I think, with 20% fees(I know about few levels but let's be honest - most of us pays 20%) it may be more better. I explain - I can choose good proposal. But I want think about how can I do a job, but not about is this proposal a job, or a joke, or a mistake. Especially it is important for newbies like me - without good job history I have to sent many proposals hoping that somebody will hire me. So, I have to spend many connects. And if task's description looks like something that I can do, but later I understand that it is not...it's sad. I think, that Upwork must filter such trash.


 Would you prefer to pay 30% or 40% fees so that Upwork could employ a stable of new employees to review each of the hundreds of thousands of job postings in advance so that you didn't have to spend a few seconds doing so yourself?


Really? Do you think it will cost us such sums? First steps for this functional must be automated, and only little part of posting will be filtered manually. I can do many things by myself, but if I pay for service, I think I may ask to impove it too. 


@Tiffany S wrote:

@Aleksej K wrote:

Maybe it's because Upwork is getting money from adult professionals and these professionals may to ask Upwork to improve service? Something like pre-moderation of job's description. I'm newbie here. I like Upwork's service. But I think, with 20% fees(I know about few levels but let's be honest - most of us pays 20%) it may be more better. I explain - I can choose good proposal. But I want think about how can I do a job, but not about is this proposal a job, or a joke, or a mistake. Especially it is important for newbies like me - without good job history I have to sent many proposals hoping that somebody will hire me. So, I have to spend many connects. And if task's description looks like something that I can do, but later I understand that it is not...it's sad. I think, that Upwork must filter such trash.


 Would you prefer to pay 30% or 40% fees so that Upwork could employ a stable of new employees to review each of the hundreds of thousands of job postings in advance so that you didn't have to spend a few seconds doing so yourself?


 Tiffany, you don't need a bunch of new employees to scan thousands of jobs. There exists this wonderful system of flagging jobs (Flag as inappropriate). You just have to add this item to the list. Worked with Elance and works fine with PPH and Guru. 

 

I myself quote on these trash jobs only if I have enough connects to spare and then I merely ask the job poster to provide the details. Never received a reply. On PPH you can even ask the job poster to provide the missing details before quoting and in most cases even receive a reply.

 

I just posted my complaint to vent off some steam as the number of these trash jobs is on the rise again. Even if one doesn't quote one has wade through them.

In the translation category today is:

 

"Need translation for an appointment". That's it. No language specified. However, the job is hourly and the client wants an expert - of course.

 

I think this is an inappropriate job "offer".

Hi Nichola,

 

The description you mentioned does fall short of what would be considered an appropriate outline for a job post, so please flag the job and our team will follow up with the client.

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Thanks Vladimir, I have, but I had to check the phishing/fraud box (even if it is not the case) because there are not enough "appropriate" categories in the drop-down menu - just sayin'. Smiley Frustrated


@Joachim M wrote:


 Tiffany, you don't need a bunch of new employees to scan thousands of jobs. There exists this wonderful system of flagging jobs (Flag as inappropriate). You just have to add this item to the list. Worked with Elance and works fine with PPH and Guru. 


 Based on the constant complaints in the forums about how jobs that have been flagged are still active a week later, I'd say that's not working all that well...most likely because the staff reviewing them is already overwhelmed.


@Tiffany S wrote:

@Joachim M wrote:


 Tiffany, you don't need a bunch of new employees to scan thousands of jobs. There exists this wonderful system of flagging jobs (Flag as inappropriate). You just have to add this item to the list. Worked with Elance and works fine with PPH and Guru. 


 Based on the constant complaints in the forums about how jobs that have been flagged are still active a week later, I'd say that's not working all that well...most likely because the staff reviewing them is already overwhelmed.


 Tiffany, if you don't flag but report them via support ticket the response is really swift. I'd say it's a matter of priorities at Upwork and flagging has a lower priority than support tickets. Further, as three sites proved it can managed...


@Aleksej K wrote:

I think, that Upwork must filter such trash.


Do it yourself. It will cost less than having Upwork doing it for you. It takes just one click to discard a job that you don't want to apply to.

 

Alternatively, you can hire someone to come to your place and to click for you if you don't like clicking.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless


@Rene K wrote:

Alternatively, you can hire someone to come to your place and to click for you if you don't like clicking.


Rene, by this way I may create my own upwork **Edited for Community Guidelines** ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

petra_r
Member

There is "a deliverable," it is just not specified in the job posting.

 

I know the client you refer to and you know as well as I do that neither of us would ever waste time applying to one of their job postings.

 

When there is no word count but I am interested I just apply with a request for the relevant details.

versailles
Member


@Joachim M wrote:

Why does Upwork allow a continously growing number of job postings without deliverables? It mostly affects fixed price jobs. 


Sometimes clients don't think forward when they write their proposals, especially about what the contractor would need in order to give a quote.

 

But sometimes they don't attach the document because it contains sensitive or confidential info. Yes, they could at least mention the metrics. And sometimes they do but the wrong way, for instance by giving a page count for translation instead of a word count. Because they think the page count is the metric that translators use.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless
cupidmedia
Member

The problem is that there's such a huge variety of different jobs here that it is a ridiculously mammoth task to make a list of requirements for everything.

 

Like Petra said, you can choose to ignore the post, or you can make a proposal requesting the info needed if you think it sounds like it might be interesting.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi All,

 

When the client posts a job in most categories they will see additional fields that asks them to provide more specifics about the job, i. e. operation system and whether or not the client has designs or specifications for development projects; language pair for translation jobs, additional files, etc. However, it's not a violation of Upwork ToS for the client not to provide information about the job they don't want to share. That's why the jobs you are referring to won't be removed by Upwork team. 

~ Valeria
Upwork


@Valeria K wrote:

Hi All,

 

When the client posts a job in most categories they will see additional fields that asks them to provide more specifics about the job, i. e. operation system and whether or not the client has designs or specifications for development projects; language pair for translation jobs, additional files, etc. However, it's not a violation of Upwork ToS for the client not to provide information about the job they don't want to share. That's why the jobs you are referring to won't be removed by Upwork team. 


 Valeria, there is no need to specifiy what is required. That would be impossible to do. It would suffice to say in the ToS that a job posting has to specify enough deliverables that a proposal is possible without asking for more details. On the job page you even list this in the items for the thumbs down icon. But as the thumbs down icon is for some unknown internal purposes only, there is no learning by the clients. I gave up using the thumbs down icon for this reason.

In my experience, these listings are usually posted by farmers seeking new minions. So unless a freelancer is interested in cranking out "content" by the ton for low-low wages, it's best to ignore most of them.

 

Many of these listings remind me of the classfied ads posted by temp and employment agencies back in the "olden days." The same ads would appear every week, boasting about great pay, benefits and interesting work. But if you were foolish enough to visit an agency, you'd discover that the ad was just a bait-and-switch tactic.