Why does Upwork push hourly contracts?

donaldcasteel · ‎08-15-2019

Does anyone else get upset to see that a job posting can require 100+ Upwork hours from the freelancer?

I have put in hundreds of hours, but as fixed price projects. I prefer fixed price because there are no misunderstandings or surprises for either the client or the freelancer.

I have found many if not most clients prefer fixed price projects for the same reason.

However Upwork does everything it can to direct jobs to hourly, like offering extra protections to the freelancer for hourly work, and adding the minimum hours requirement for clients.

Can anyone explain this?

lysis10 · ‎08-15-2019

Because hourly is better. Just look at all these people fighting over escrow funds. Never had a dispute on Upwork over hourly charges. Usually, the people that overcharge on hourly use manual because they aren't really working those hours. Stick keyboard people excluded.

donaldcasteel · ‎08-15-2019

I did have a bad experience with hourly contracts, which is why I now prefer fixed price.

I'm still willing to do hourly contracts, it's just that fixed price is a much more clear-cut understanding in my opinion.

lysis10 · ‎08-15-2019

Don C wrote:
I did have a bad experience with hourly contracts, which is why I now prefer fixed price.

I'm still willing to do hourly contracts, it's just that fixed price is a much more clear-cut understanding in my opinion.

Make sure you read up on how the dispute process works. 😄

I had hourly disputes on elance. I hated them too until I got to Upwork. Now I hate escrow jobs. Still do them but meh. I won't do them on certain jobs though.

I had a guy with an $800 escrow budget who has now spent 35 hours with me because of all the stuff he kept throwing my way. He's ghosted the project and I think abandoned it. I don't care because I got paid for my time. This is one of the worst ones I've had but not the only one where hourly saved me from scope creep.

prestonhunter · ‎08-15-2019

re: "Why does Upwork push hourly contracts?"

$

tlsanders · ‎08-15-2019

No, I don't get upset about that, because it doesn't seem to make any difference. I've been hired on plenty of jobs without meeting the number of hours requirement.

It is a dumb measure that could easily be fixed if Upwork changed it to something like "X hours or Y number of jobs" or "X hours or $Z in earnings," and I don't understand why they don't, but I don't really care about it or feel like it's affected my business.

donaldcasteel · ‎08-15-2019

Maybe "upset" was a little strong, dismayed may have been more appropriate

.

A agree that it really doesn't seem to make much difference, it's just one more thing that Upwork could do better, recognize that fixed price is valid experience, better in some cases. At lease don't punish us for our preferences.

lysis10 · ‎08-15-2019

Don C wrote:
Maybe "upset" was a little strong, dismayed may have been more appropriate
.
A agree that it really doesn't seem to make much difference, it's just one more thing that Upwork could do better, recognize that fixed price is valid experience, better in some cases. At lease don't punish us for our preferences.

Not sure what you mean. I haven't done lots of jobs on Upwork, but I know that one of the first options is to choose if you want hourly or fixed price. It's a client's choice.

petra_r · ‎08-15-2019

Don C wrote:
Maybe "upset" was a little strong, dismayed may have been more appropriate

"Dismayed?"

Really?

Because some client chose to click a preference you are free to ignore?

Drama, much?

donaldcasteel · ‎08-16-2019

No, only confused as why things are the way they are.

It seems questioning the wisdom of “The Upwork” is discouraged by most people on the forum.

Lesson learned

tlbp · ‎08-15-2019

Don C wrote:
Does anyone else get upset to see that a job posting can require 100+ Upwork hours from the freelancer?

I have put in hundreds of hours, but as fixed price projects. I prefer fixed price because there are no misunderstandings or surprises for either the client or the freelancer.

I have found many if not most clients prefer fixed price projects for the same reason.

However Upwork does everything it can to direct jobs to hourly, like offering extra protections to the freelancer for hourly work, and adding the minimum hours requirement for clients.

Can anyone explain this?

This is a false premise. Offering freelancers protection for hourly contracts is feasible because it can be limited to specific requirements to qualify. And, freelancers using fixed-price contracts have escrow and dispute options available to them as an alternative form of protection.
Allowing clients to select from a menu of options doesn't mean that Upwork is pushing those options.

If you don't like a policy because it puts you at a disadvantage, just say so. There's no reason to build a false narrative.

prestonhunter · ‎08-15-2019

Paying people for their time is an equitable, time-honored way to pay people.

It IS indeed Upwork's original, default payment method.

Along with the desktop-based time-tracker, it is part of the company's business model from the beginning, going back to its predecessors.

Fixed-price contracts should be seen as a privilege, appropriate only for a narrower range of types of work, and something that not all clients can understand or use appropriately.

kbadeau · ‎08-15-2019

The funny thing is, I got a bunch of invites in June, I thought maybe because I had just crossed the threshold of 500 hours. Then I went and looked and you can either choose FLers with 100+ hours or 1000+ hours. That’s quite a spread.

It bothered me when I had less than 100 hours but now of course it makes no difference to me.

msublette · ‎08-16-2019

Does it? In my experience, clients are happy to change the contract. I usually explain why, for a particular project, hourly or fixed is better. I’ve never had a client tell me they wanted one over the other. And I’ve never had any issue with a client changing it before I accepted an offer. I just don’t think any of it matters much in the bidding process.

kbadeau · ‎08-16-2019

Michelle S wrote:
Does it? In my experience, clients are happy to change the contract. I usually explain why, for a particular project, hourly or fixed is better. I’ve never had a client tell me they wanted one over the other. And I’ve never had any issue with a client changing it before I accepted an offer. I just don’t think any of it matters much in the bidding process.

Well I took it that he meant that for some jobs clients will choose the option of preferring freelancers with 100+ hours on Upwork? That was hard for me starting out because most of my first jobs were fixed rate. Makes you look inexperienced as well. I've always thought it was kind of odd.

gilbert-phyllis · ‎08-16-2019

Kelly B wrote:
Michelle S wrote:
Does it? In my experience, clients are happy to change the contract. I usually explain why, for a particular project, hourly or fixed is better. I’ve never had a client tell me they wanted one over the other. And I’ve never had any issue with a client changing it before I accepted an offer. I just don’t think any of it matters much in the bidding process.
Well I took it that he meant that for some jobs clients will choose the option of preferring freelancers with 100+ hours on Upwork? That was hard for me starting out because most of my first jobs were fixed rate. Makes you look inexperienced as well. I've always thought it was kind of odd.

It's an asymmetry, for sure. But I can't think of a feasible solution. Hours are hours, and looking at hours combined with hourly rates enables some degree of standardized comparison. Fixed-price projects, otoh, are wildly variable. Ten fixed-price jobs for one FL might represent $150 and <20 hours of work and for another, $150k and 400 hrs of work. I believe in ignoring the minimum hours criterion and let my cover letter + profile speak for me.