Why don't you follow the Terms of Service?

[#1]

This is a sincere question to all freelancers who have been scammed or almost scammed. The vast majority of people who get into trouble do not know the Terms of Service. I am looking for honest responses, not the story of being scammed or how unfair it is.

Why don't you know and follow the Terms of Service?

A) I didn't read anything before signing up

B) I can't understand it because it is too complicated

C) I can't understand it because of language barriers even in translations

D) I know about freelancing, so I ignored it

E) I'm here to make money

F) What's a Terms of Service?

[#2]

Jeanne,

Please read Upwork's Terms of Service and the Academy link on the top of the page for this type of information.

[#3]

Did you read my post? The information I am looking for is not contained anywhere, thus my question. I am sincerely trying to find out why so many people go off to be scammed. In case you haven't noticed, some of us are trying to prevent the mass scamming.

I am well acquainted with the Academy and the Terms, thank you very much.

If you are going to comment, perhaps you should read the post, first. Your response makes no sense.

[#4]

Jeanne,

These freelancers are not reading Upwork's Terms or the Academy.

That is the answer otherwise they would not get scammed.

[#5]

I'm glad everything in your world is simple and explained. There are freelancers who don't understand all the language in the Terms, and some do have language barriers.

I know they are not reading the Terms. Again, did you read the title of my post??? Whether you care or not, I am still trying to find the facts to improve the situation.

[#6]

Facts: Read the Terms and Academy and problem solved.

Most people are lazy and the Academy is not obvious.

I was on the site for 5 years before given an invitation to the Community.

[#7]

I am talking about the Terms of Service. You have to check that you have read it before you can do anything on the site.

However, I do want to know more about the Academy. How can it be made obvious? Is there a better way to put it in front of freelancers?

I do not understand your comment about being invited to the Community. Do you mean here, in the Community Forums?

People post whenever they like. There is no waiting period for posting, and to the best of my knowledge there never was. 

[#8]

Terms = Terms of Service - shorthand.

When a freelancer signs up and gets approved on Upwork, they should receive an email reminder with a link to read the Terms of Service again, a link to the Academy, and a link to the Community.

I never received any of the above and only on November 2022 received an email from Upwork to join the Community which I did.

It's VERY simple - inform the freelancers - inform clients.

Computer programmers are able to track whether the freelancer has viewed the Terms, Academy, and the Community. If the freelancer hasn't completed these tasks in a week, they should be sent a reminder email.

Jeanne, this is just standard procedures for even small websites.

I give Upwork credit that for whatever reason they choose not to follow these standards, but instead, have created their own unique process.

This thread doesn't solve anything unless Upwork wants to, since of course, as professionals they know how to solve these issues.

There are dozens of quick fixes for this site that are obvious to power users of the site such as myself. There are also quick fixes to increasing the revenues of the site since many of Upwork's largest resources aren't properly engaged in the vision. Low hanging fruit all over the place.

Maybe it's just common sense to me because of my business background.

[#9]

 Golly! I don't know how we poor, bumbling freelancers manage to even send in a proposal. I guess none of us have business experience.

Since you are so very wise and experienced, then how are you going to solve the problem? What are you doing to help? No, I don't mean the "I have made millions." I mean to help the average freelancer? If you don't have solutions, for the freelancers that are trying but running into language or other difficulties, you aren't going to convince me to not care.

I'm so glad we have you as a "power user" to help us dumb ole freelancers. How did any of us manage before?

[#10]

AI which you have stated in other posts that you are against, translates from to English to the native tongue for freelancers that need that function.

What is wrong with the email notification idea - why against that?

Why are you against AI?

AI is here whether we want it or not.

When you have time, log into Upwork to the Job search section and they have responded with the important information right above the Jobs.

Way to go Upwork - great job!

[#11]

AI is here whether we want it or not...

So are school shootings, climate change, and toxic chemicals in the air and water. Does that mean no one should be against them?

[#12]

AI is being used to trick clients into thinking they are talking to a freelancer who knows a language and has skills. I'm against anything that creates more deceptive, fraudulent freelancers. Client's too, for that matter. Clients are using AI to create a mess of irrelevant posts about jobs.

The freelancers I see are using AI, not to have a nice read in another language, they are using it just like translators.

Are some freelancers using so-called "AI" responsibly? Of course. The ones who are do not have a chatbot write their proposals, profile or anything else. It's supposed to be a tool, but many are using it as a substitute for skills.

Why am I against AI? We have been here before, and you were unable to refute my statements. AI is many things. It scans the web, books, movies, and who knows what else and literally lifts phrases and steals. Plagiarism is theft. If you don't have any work you don't mind being stolen, fine for you, but I care for me and everyone else, including you.

I am not against tech or AI, and you know it. I am against theft, plagiarism, and cheating customers. Real AI is fascinating and can lead to amazing things. I routinely write for a publication on how AI is changing the medical realm.

For those who use ChatGPT responsibly, I have no issue. Some people use it to toss around ideas or potential ways of obtaining their objectives. I'm sure there are many other uses that do not plagiarize.

No, Upwork does not explain things. There is no explaining plagiarism. You can call it whatever you wish. Theft is theft. I'm glad you don't mind whatever work you have done being used by others without your permission, but I do not.

[#13]

I spend two hours per day studying AI on Youtube and LinkedIn Learning. Consider that an option to learn more about AI.

What publication are you writing AI medical articles?

[#14]

Consider actually reading, reflecting on, and believing what people have to say here. Consider not asking people to produce their credentials, particularly after you've just insulted their established expertise. Just because it's demonstrable, doesn't mean anyone has to document it to you.

[#15]

How weirdly condescending that you should be suggesting basic resources on AI to someone who has just told you that they are writing professionally about AI. Your posts often come across as if you believe you are the only person on Upwork who successfully completed the third grade. 

[#16]

When a freelancer signs up and gets approved on Upwork, they should receive an email reminder with a link to read the Terms of Service again, a link to the Academy, and a link to the Community.

It's been a very long time since I signed up for elance. I was given an invitation to the forum immediately. In addition, you don't have to have an invitation to post. It's just a "nice" thing.

[#17]

You did, however, click a box saying you were agreeing to those terms. The best time to read them is before clicking.

[#18]

I'm actually interested to hear the responses to this.  Unfortunately I doubt people will actually read and comprehend your post, so this thread will probably turn into people either lecturing you about how they got scammed, or saying that every scam is UW's fault even though the ToS were broken.

[#19]

I want to hear responses as well. Sure, there will be the whiners, complaining about everything, but hopefully at least a few people will respond honestly.

[#20]

A=F here. And for 99% this is the answer.

[#21]

Well, that’s a loaded question.

I didn’t read the Terms of Service because I didn’t feel like it, that’s why. 

My very first interview was a scammer too.  I’m sharing that because I believe that qualifies me to answer your question.  To this day, I have not read the TOS for the same reason.  I did, however, recently refer to the section about treating other members respectfully as I noticed a couple of women being quite the condescending duo-you know, unwilling to accept that we all aren’t as perfect and successful as them because there’s something wrong with us, or even the way we were raised.  So I guess you could say that I've read that part of the TOS that interested me at that moment; probably like most others.

That said, is this supposed to be an honest question?  You may as well ask how many red lights per day we run.  Honestly, for someone who repeatedly claims to mentor/coach people I gotta really wonder about your approach.  OMG.

Now that you’ve opened up this can of worms in the interest of “helping”, kindly observe the TOS in your responses.   

[#22]

 Thank you for your response. It tells me much about the situation, far more than you realize.

As for the Terms, I'm sure Upwork moderators can handle the job.

There are freelancers, who do indeed read all the Terms, are never scammed or cheated and ask questions when they do not understand.

For people who choose to ignore the Terms, that is on them, and the choice they make. Anyone scammed under those circumstances is not going to suddenly follow the rules. I am interested in seeing if there are any obstacles for the freelancers trying to do the right thing.

[#23]

This is fascinating. In the same post you complain about freelancers who think many freelancers could solve their own problems by running their businesses responsibly and then--after constant positioning of yourself as a helpless victim of Upwork's treachery--proudly declare yourself one of those who has consciously decided not to run their business responsibly. 

Is there just a little inkling in your mind, at all, that there may be a connection? That maybe you, not a giant faceless corporation, holds the key to your success or failure?

[#24]

I’m glad I fascinate you.  

Tiffany, I don’t recall ever offering advice here, but I truly believe you may find benefit from a twelve step program.  There are various kinds available, they're free, and at the very least you will learn to recognize, and hopefully prevent, the urge to insert yourself where you don’t belong.  Truth: Hurt people hurt other people. 

It works if you work it.

[#25]

Fortunately, my intention is absolutely never to hurt anyone (even the occasional person who begs for it). It is to help other freelancers (and people in all areas of life) succeed, and that often works. I'm very troubled when people work so hard to convince others that they are helpless victims. I can't understand the motivation for it--perhaps when one is failing it makes them feel better to see others failing, and makes it easier to believe that it's outside their control? 

I know that you and a few others here are deeply personally offended by my efforts to empower people who are more interested in succeeding than in having someone to blame for their failure, but that seems to me like something you might want to reflect on. I'll never stop countering the effort to squash other freelancers into wallowing around in desperation.