This issue with idle contracts or jobs completed without the contract being closed by the client (which is how it needs to be so the client gives feedback as "no feedback" hurts the freelancer)... Why is this responsibility and repercussions on the FREELANCER? When a job is complete and payment is made, perhaps clients don't think about closing the contract? Why is this the Freelancers responsibility? Or if they hire someone and aren't ready to give work... These are client issues that it appears Upwork has given entirely to the Freelancer to manage and stress out about. And ANY deviance from closing contracts immediately... the freelancer takes the hit on their JSS?
Our JSS score ALSO suffers from private feedback. Where is OUR private feedback, that we give to clients, reflected? Why isn't there a client success score so we can have a better idea who we should sign contracts with?
How does this make sense that the client can do anything they want to do... Walk away from contracts, leave them open indefinitely... Pay less than agreed (don't argue with the client or your JSS suffers....) And suffer no repercussions. That is bad enough, but worse than that, the FREELANCER gets punished by CLIENT behavior in their JSS.
I can usually see both sides of issues, even when I disagree. But there is no part of me that can understand the reasoning that went into JSS scores for freelancers other than some bizarre thinking that says clients are gold and freelancers are trash. I get it you all want to attract clients. But if you don't have great freelancers doing the work for them, what's the point?! Freelancers need to be treated equally as well.
Please eliminate JSS scores and let us just worry about our work and not stress out to no end over situations we cannot control. You are chasing away your best freelancers.
I actually don't understand how their reviews work either. Sometimes I click on a client's name to try and see their reviews but all I can see is how many stars they have? I can't actually read the reviews unless it's on the page they posted the job at?
I also noticed that sometimes they have like 50 reviews but it says they're all unnavailable. Those I learned to be from the merger that oDesk went through before it became UpWork... but that still means we have to TRUST that said client is ok to work with, without actually knowing.
It's such a one-sided bussiness model. I'm not sure how long I'll keep working with UpWork.
I agree - I have never seen such favoritism given to clients and such disrespect given to freelancers. They won't give us the info we need to make sure we don't hire a client in which THEIR behavior on unrelated work matters directly affects our JSS. And clients can hold us hostage because of it - walk all over us - and we have to take it so as to not disturb our JSS.
The facts that I have 30some proposals that have zero action on them - some over 60 days old - shows the level of clients that often come here. To be honest, reputable clients are much harder to find than those who are truly looking for work to be done and are fair. Many are not part of any company and are very dishonest - I have one that looks like she is walking away with a rough draft saving $100 and I can't do anything about it or risk my JSS. I have seen many requesting work samples from everyone who gives a proposal so they get the work done for free. These are the people who Upwork thinks it's fair we be responsible for their behavior - so much so that our future income potential should suffer.
And Upwork treats them them like gold... And their poor behavior is not reflected anywhere (except on the freelancers JSS) , nor is our private feedback reflected anywhere causing us to blindly hire them and allow them to destroy our JSS. And once that happens, you just lost your income source. Unbelievable.
Thats different. Customers are just paying - not doing any work worthwhile of rating. If their card doesn't work, they don't get the product, end of story. There is nothing to rate.
So then you agree if a client walks away from contracts or hires someone and then never assigns work to them (I have both of those right now) then the JSS of the freelancer should suffer because a contract can't go idle? Or if they pay you 1/3 for a rough draft, and walk away because it was pretty good... And never come back... That the freelancer should lose 2/3 their pay AND take a hit to their JSS because they had to close a contract with no feedback? Or that a client can pay you less based on how much time HE thinks it should have taken base on your hourly rate when it was a fixed rate contract? That happened to me too.
in what world does honest business work like this?
no, I don't think there should be be a client success score but I also DO NOT BELIEVE there should be a job success score either especially since a lot of what goes into it is a CLIENT's responsibility. With that said, if they are bound and determined to keep JSS, shouldn't there be a client success score based on those examples??
"So then you agree if a client walks away from contracts or hires someone and then never assigns work to them (I have both of those right now) then the JSS of the freelancer should suffer because a contract can't go idle?"
Of all the jobs I've done, I think this has happened to me once. No money has been exchanged, so close contract. Valeria can confirm, but I believe she's said if no money is exchanged, there is no negative impact.
"Or if they pay you 1/3 for a rough draft, and walk away because it was pretty good... And never come back... That the freelancer should lose 2/3 their pay AND take a hit to their JSS because they had to close a contract with no feedback"
This will never happen to me, because I demand full escrow of the entire amount or a percentage of the funds that correspond with the percentage of the work. 95% of the work is in the draft, so it's easier just to get full funds upfront.
"Or that a client can pay you less based on how much time HE thinks it should have taken base on your hourly rate when it was a fixed rate contract? That happened to me too."
This will never happen to me either, because I tell people how long it will take me. Not the other way around. I've had people say "I think this will take 3 hours.." And I agree sometimes. But, I know my pace, and that's what I set.
It sounds more like to me that you need to take control and stop having the "employer-employee" mentality. Until you can take control and learn to do things in a way that are mutually agreeable to all parties, you will continue to be a victim. You don't have anything protecting you except you in freelancing. People will walk all over you if you let them. There are ways to politely tell people how you work.
I am fairly new here and this is the first time it came up. And the discussion on how long it should have taken took place AFTER the work was done and why would I even have this conversation with a client when we had a fixed rate?
It it was a $425 fixed rate. When all was said and done, he was happy and then he said, "how about I pay you $350? That seems fair - it would be equivalent to x amount of hours at your hourly rate which seems about what this job would take. So I replied and told him how long it actually took me, which would have been more expensive than the fixed rate, and that it's a fixed rate anyway, and he thanked me for that and closed the contract paying out only $350.
thank you for bring so friendly. *sigh*. I know perfectly well how to talk to clients. And I wouldn't even care if I pushed the issue and he gave me a lower rating in public feedback since all of mine are 5 stars. But I am afraid to push issues with the job success score in play because it's the first thing clients see when they get your proposal and I would like to continue getting job offers. Clients can do this stuff and get away with it because of the JSS.
You had the option to decline the lowered amount, correct? What he did was really crappy, but I would have LOL'd and said "How about no?" He played you because he can. Should have disputed what he did.
Like I said, if you let people walk all over you, they will do it. Some of the people here can smell weakness through the monitor, so you have to (politely, of course) work with what you have and be somewhat forceful when they want to play games like that. Upwork has rules, but there is no one protecting you but you for the most part.
BTW, I saw that you gave the jerk 4.5 stars. I probably would have broken my rule of never giving clients feedback and given him a 1 for that. Fastest way to piss me off is to not pay me. You rated him well, so now he'll do it to someone else.
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