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sivavranagaro
Member

Why two filters regarding freelancer's hourly rate?

The bad thing with search tool is next:

 

I'm now in category of experts (not by my choice), description bellow: "Willing to pay higher rates for most experienced freelancers"

 

When someone needs a presentation, they'll exclude me with one single click on this filter. It's unecessary filter because there is already another filter for hourly prices, more precise. I have $25 rate, but the person who sees the "experts" label might think it's a category only for rates above $40 per hour or something like that.

 

I won't get all the invitations I would if I wasn't in expert category, or if clients didn't use that filter. But they do use it because it's a third filter in a row. Most jobs, listed in my job feed, are set to "intermediate - looking for a mix of experience and value" (which is expected).

 

Well, that's not fair. If anything, I should decide if I'm in category of mix of experience and value, or highest rates. Hourly rate of $25 is not among highest rates. I set it purposely so I could attract clients who offer long term contracts, for months, and these people don't go with highest prices. 

 

Edit: and yes, I'm glad that UpWork thinks I'm an expert. But please, just don't connect that with hourly rate if you already have other filter for that. After a client clicks on intermediate they won't find me in results even if he/she sets filter for hourly rate so it matches mine hourly rate in that range. You can easily check that, as I just did. I don't appear at all, unless I choose "expert-highest rates", which to many people might mean rates above $60. 

 

Although I'm top rated, and on top pages in results, I'm once again hidden by the system from potential clients. 

Think about these filters, please.

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79 REPLIES 79
suznee
Member

Vesna,

 

When I use the "Expert" (I know I am not a client) but I I am generally looking for jobs wanting specific skills and anything that pays better then the other two categories. I do not consider the "Expert" Category over $40 or a set amount, but that the client is willing to pay more for someone with specific skills. So I don't think you would be filtered out or looked over due to being in an "Expert" category.

 

I work $20 an hour jobs and many of those are in the category you mention, Intermediate and Entry Level generally have lower expectations and pay rate.


@Suzanne N wrote:

Vesna,

 

When I use the "Expert" (I know I am not a client) but I I am generally looking for jobs wanting specific skills and anything that pays better then the other two categories. I do not consider the "Expert" Category over $40 or a set amount, but that the client is willing to pay more for someone with specific skills. So I don't think you would be filtered out or looked over due to being in an "Expert" category.

 

I work $20 an hour jobs and many of those are in the category you mention, Intermediate and Entry Level generally have lower expectations and pay rate.


Suzanne, maybe you don't see "expert" as a category for freelancers with over $40 per hour, but there are descriptions, and icons near each category that tell something:

entry $

intermediate $$

expert $$$

 

It's obvious what three dollar symbols represent. More expertise = more cost.

 

One thing is when I apply to job. I can choose both intermediate and expert categories. I don't filter them out because such thing is not in my interest. However, it's different when client searches for freelancer. If he/she clicks on "expert" or "intermediate" that will list only those freelancers that belong to each category. Unless if he/she decides to uncheck one filter and try with other. Which I doubt many of them do.

 

Intermediate and expert category equally list many freelancers with around $20 hourly rates, although what icons and description suggest is something totally different. Also, it's weird to see a person with around $30 in entry level category, when it's description says "lowest rate".

 

So, we have a situation now where you click for example on "entry - freelancers with lowest rates", and "hourly rate: $60 and above". Not choosing any other filter I get some pretty funny results. Pages and pages of freelancers that have lowest rates with above $60. What sense does that have? Can mods explain this to me?

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iaabraham
Member

I'm glad someone brought this up! I saw that filter and was wondering how Upwork determines who's an expert (only by hourly rates)? Can mods clarify?

Hi Isabelle, 

 

Your experience level is self-assessed you would have selected this when signing up.  Here is a screen capture: image.png

Untitled

Lena

 

You say this is set when you set up your profile. can you please explain how it can be changed later. I've looked all over my profile settings and can't see it anywhere.


@Stephen B wrote:

Lena

 

You say this is set when you set up your profile. can you please explain how it can be changed later. I've looked all over my profile settings and can't see it anywhere.


I asked the same question as soon as I saw her post.

I never knew it was that easy to became an expert! Poor people who started out as entry level 5 years ago - DOOM!


@Stephen B wrote:

Lena

 

You say this is set when you set up your profile. can you please explain how it can be changed later. I've looked all over my profile settings and can't see it anywhere.


Only place where I see it's possible to set experience is in settings, bellow profile access.

I have set there two years experience, not 5 or 10. And description for intermediate according to image Lena pasted is "a few years experience", and for expert "many years of experience".

 

Are the two years of experience "many years" or "a few"?

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@Lena E wrote:

Hi Isabelle, 

 

Your experience level is self-assessed you would have selected this when signing up.  Here is a screen capture: 


I registered here three years ago, and I don't remember such option. I'm sure I didn't set "expert" for myself three years ago because back than I didn't feel like expert in PowerPoint. Please, where can I change this? And if this option exist how often we can change it? I would like to test my presumption, is there more invitations in intermediate area. 

 

Edit: 

Can't we be experts in one thing and intermediate in other, and search jobs according to this? How it looks now, once I learn web design, and decide to apply for beginner jobs in that area, I'll appear again as an expert.

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Just saw this reply now. Thanks for the response; however, I honestly don't remember self-assessing my experience level. And anyway, things have changed since I first signed up. I, like others, look forward to further clarification.

Oh dear - I was happier and more confident in landing jobs before I knew about these filters!

 

Anyway, I just put it to the test and searched for freelancers offering legal translations.

 

I selected "intermediate level" and found myself on page 11 (my hourly rate is $44); fine, I haven't been here for a very long time. But legal translations is one of the skills displayed on my portfolio and it's one of my selected categories. The words legal and translation are mentioned in my overview, title, employment history and portfolio. What more could I do?

 

There's a female translator listed on the first page who mentions the word legal in her overview and job history. She has completed one single job (nothing legal). On page 9 there is a freelancer from India who specializes in web and mobile apps, functional & automation (QTP) testing - and of course does not offer anything resembling translations at all. 

 

Then I selected "expert level" and that's when it got interesting: none of the people on the first page even had "legal translation" selected as one of their sills. That means they selected it at least as a category, right??

 

I chose one translator, who also didn't use the word legal at all in a very detailed profile overview. He had one job out of 43 that had the word legal in the job description (legal content proofreader). It was a $13.33 job for which he hadn't received feedback. 

 

So, that makes him a legal translations expert how exactly? I am not saying he's not a great translator - but why do I choose skills, carefully write my overview, select categories when other people get listed at the top in my field who don't even promote themselves for this kind of job?

 

I won't do another search for my other categories. It is too depressing.

It's no wonder I hardly get any relevant invites.

 

 

P.S. edited after I saw Lena's post: I don't remember this question at all but am rather sure I would have selected "expert". Is there a way to find out and/or change this? I mean, a person who started out as entry level 3 years ago won't stay entry level until forever on this platform, right??


@Ela K wrote:

Oh dear - ...


That's what I'm talking here for some time. Earlier, in front of me in results, in design - presentations category, was a translator, whose only experience with presentations was not design but content translation. One job in some 20 or 30. 

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I would really appreciate if somebody could explain to me how the (freelancer) search algorithm works - does it look for categories only? Why do I appear on page 11 only and lots of people who don't even offer legal translations are ranked ahead of me?
Thanks.


@Ela K wrote:
I would really appreciate if somebody could explain to me how the (freelancer) search algorithm works - does it look for categories only? Why do I appear on page 11 only and lots of people who don't even offer legal translations are ranked ahead of me?
Thanks.

Architects and webdesigners in presentation category over here.

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sivavranagaro
Member

Why I'm not getting any decent reply to this apsurd I pointed out?

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I too would like somebody to explain how the search filters work. And how to adjust the level of experience - in case that is possible at all.

@Lena  (Please reply)

 

Yesterday you showed how freelancers would have set their experience level when signing up. Yet it appears so far none of the established freelancers on here recall ever having to do that. I certainly don't. So could you please clarify:

 

a) when that feature was introduced;

 

b) where it is viible on a profile (I can't see it on mine);

 

c) How it is possible to access it and adjust it via profile settings, bcause nobody replying so far has been able to find it; and

 

d) whether this metric that nobody knows about is used to automatically choose people for recommendations.

 

I always appreciate replies from other users of course, but in this case we really need a reply from Lena (or another mod if Lena is sick or on holiday). So it may be best to keep this post clear (signify your agreement with kudos if you ish) so the question stays near the top and is not missed.

Good questions here and we're checking on them. We'll come back when we have more info.

Thanks Garnor - I look forward with interest  to your reply.

pandoraharper
Member

Iv'e been following this thread with interest, because my account is old old old. I did find something "something" related to this in my profile,  I can set a number anywhere from 1 to 20 YEARS. I currently have it set to 20, and if that setting is making me an expert in ALL the services I provide, that scares me. 

 

I set that number way back in the day because of my years in the corporate world doing, oddly, much of what I do now remotely.

 

However, some things I've only been doing as a remote contractor for 3-5 years. Maybe an expert to some people, but not to others.

 

I look forward to hearing more about this Garnor. It's clearly something has been overlooked because of all the big changes lately, but if it affects us being found in Search, etc, it's a big deal.

Hi Lena / Garnor / Valeria. hope you had a good weekend. Now it's over, could anyone find any answers to the questions posted last week (see below)?:

 

You showed how freelancers would have set their experience level when signing up. Yet it appears so far none of the established freelancers on here recall ever having to do that. I certainly don't. So could you please clarify:

 

a) when that feature was introduced;

 

b) where it is viible on a profile (I can't see it on mine);

 

c) How it is possible to access it and adjust it via profile settings, bcause nobody replying so far has been able to find it; and

 

d) whether this metric that nobody knows about is used to automatically choose people for recommendations.

Hi Everyone,

 

I understand your need for clarification and transparency on the experience levels. I personally do not know the answers to all of your questions and so I have reached out to other people to find them out. The delay in responding to this thread is I am waiting for people to get back with me. I do apologize, it has taken longer than I anticipated, but I will update you when I have clarification.

 

-Lena 

Untitled

Thanks for that Lena. The main thing is, you gave us a screenshot showing how and where the setting as made - but no-one can recall or duplicate that. You may not know all the answers, and I appreciate your intention on finding them out - but in the meantime you must know where you got that screenshot from. is it ony an option on new freelancer contracts opened ater a certain date?

The screenshot is from when you create a new freelancer account. I however do not know when this question first appeared in the registration process.

I have also found out that the option is not currently editable and that is why you may not be able to find the setting in your profile. I understand your request to be able to edit experience level and the team responsible for this feature will work on implementing it in our upcoming release(s). It was noted that in the new release ( i dont have a date),  experience level will be single selection. It won't be possible to select multiple experience levels.

 

-Lena 

Untitled

BUMP BUMP - is anyone from Upwork there?

 

it's now two weeks since I asked the questions, and one week since I had the last reply, which was basically that nobody seems to know. I think it's reasonable that after two full weeks one of the mods should have been able to come up with the answers to the questions that were asked. The problem hasn't gone away - it's being discussed here.

 

Just a reminder - this is what I asked two weeks ago:

 

You showed how freelancers would have set their experience level when signing up. Yet it appears so far none of the established freelancers on here recall ever having to do that. I certainly don't. So could you please clarify:

 

a) when that feature was introduced;

 

b) where it is viible on a profile (I can't see it on mine);

 

c) How it is possible to access it and adjust it via profile settings, bcause nobody replying so far has been able to find it; and

 

d) whether this metric that nobody knows about is used to automatically choose people for recommendations.

 

Anyone from Upwork - please???

Having newly arrived from Elance, I was not presented with the self-assessment screen, whenever it may have been implemented. I have no idea what level of expertise the system may have assigned me. How can I find out?

Thanks and best,
Michael

Hi Michael, 

 

I just checked your profile using the public freelancer search. I did not see an experinence level noted. 

 

Best, 

 

Julie

Thanks Julie,

Neither did I. So the questions to Upwork are:
โ€ข Will I get one?
โ€ข If so, how?
โ€ข How does showing or not showing an experience level affect my visibility and eligibility?

Thanks and best,
Michael

@Douglas Michael

 

You may be a long time waiting for the answer. I've waited two weeks for the answer to the original questions about this. It seems like another thing that was introduced by someone, sometime, for some reason - but nobody (not even in Upwork) knows who, when, or why.

Hi Stephen,

 

We have got confirmation from the team that the experience level isn't used to find a match to clients. So it doesn't impact freelancers' ability to find jobs and the clients ability to find freelancers.

 

That being said, we understand your request to be able to edit experience level and will work on implementing it in our upcoming releases. Also note that experience level will be single selection. It won't be possible to select multiple experience levels.

~ Valeria
Upwork

"We have got confirmation from the team that the experience level isn't used to find a match to clients. So it doesn't impact freelancers' ability to find jobs and the clients ability to find freelancers."

 

No offense but I'm not sure if this is correct. I searched for my name using only the experience level and the category (writing-editing). I have been classified as an expert. When I limit the search to these two parameter, my name shows up. 

 

But when I change the experience level to intermediate, I don't show up. This means that if a client is looking for an editor and hits an experience level of intermediate, I won't show up in the results.

 

This clearly does impact on my  "ability to find jobs and the clients ability to find freelancers."

 

 

Now, I don't want to be put into the entry level for editors but I also don't want to be knocked out of the intermediate level. In addition, I checked the price range set by freelancers who have been classifed at either the expert and intermediate level and they are basically the same This means that even though a client may be willing to pay my price, the client won't find me by looking through the intermediate level.

So could you answer how it is determined? Is it just another secret Upwork formula? And if it's not used in filtering, what is the point of it?

"It won't be possible to select multiple experience levels."

Why would we want to? I just want to know what it is and how it's determined.

 

As a person becomes more experienced, does the experience level go up?

 

There are a lot of questions, but basically to me it just looks like another dark metric introduced by stealth. Sorry I can't be more potitive - I really do try


@Stephen B wrote:

So could you answer how it is determined? Is it just another secret Upwork formula? And if it's not used in filtering, what is the point of it?

"It won't be possible to select multiple experience levels."

Why would we want to? I just want to know what it is and how it's determined.


Stephen, it is used in filtering. Just try the same method which David described above

And you might want to use multiple experience levels if you are pro in eg. accounting (Excel), but intermediate in webdesign.  

 


@Krisztina U wrote:

I recently posted a job denoting I was looking for an expert. A few folks who had strong profiles, relevant skills, and an over 90% JS score ended up in the hidden folder. They all had a fairly low rate in common (less than $10/hr) and were probably in the beginner level, so it does seem to be one of the values the matchmaker algorithm looks at.


Oh, well! That's the second impact already!

It's not just that clients can't find me when they are searching for freelancers through use of filters, but also they won't see me because I'll be in hidden folder when I apply for a job. 

 

Great, just great!

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@Stephen B wrote:

So could you answer how it is determined? Is it just another secret Upwork formula? And if it's not used in filtering, what is the point of it?

"It won't be possible to select multiple experience levels."

Why would we want to? I just want to know what it is and how it's determined.

 

As a person becomes more experienced, does the experience level go up?

 

There are a lot of questions, but basically to me it just looks like another dark metric introduced by stealth. Sorry I can't be more potitive - I really do try


What is worse is I am no where to be found under experience levels and if it was what I had suspected, the option that use to be there of "How many years experience do you have?" It is gone and I can't even check it to see if this was why I am not showing in the experience levels.

 

It also seems that the mods are totally ignorning the thread hoping it is going to go away.

 

I really want to know why I can't be found at all unless one searches my name?

 

How is this helping me as a top rated freelancer to find clients? How is this helping any other freelancer if they can't be found in the search results under experience levels. 

Hi All,

 

Unfortunately, we do not have enough information to clarify and answer all your questions right now. Rest assured though that we are working on getting more information about the experience filters as well as about search algorithm in general.

 

Thank you for your patience.

~ Valeria
Upwork


@Valeria K wrote:

Hi Stephen,

 

We have got confirmation from the team that the experience level isn't used to find a match to clients. So it doesn't impact freelancers' ability to find jobs and the clients ability to find freelancers.


That simply is not true! It's like the team you are referring to, or all of you mods, didn't even bother to read my entry post. No - clients can't find me among intermediate if I'm in expert category. Vice versa. I checked that multiple times. Why don't you try the same? It isn't so hard. 

 

It does impact my ability to get a job. It impacts a lot! 

You better should write no response if it doesn't answer anything at all.

 

I'm sorry Valeria for this harsh post, you seem as a nice person, but I'm so mad and upset because of UpWork's constant inability to fix the most important things. 

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anima9
Member

Now that I tried to search myself without specifying so much (Writing, and skill level: all three) I couldn't find me in like 5 pages of each LOL

 

This is really weird. I'm fortunate to have long-term clients.

kugrin
Member

I recently posted a job denoting I was looking for an expert. A few folks who had strong profiles, relevant skills, and an over 90% JS score ended up in the hidden folder. They all had a fairly low rate in common (less than $10/hr) and were probably in the beginner level, so it does seem to be one of the values the matchmaker algorithm looks at.

Finally some "evidence." Also this hidden folder business is unpleasant to think about.
---- easy like Sunday morning ----

"I'm so mad and upset because of UpWork's constant inability to fix the most important thing"

 

Ditto here - but also their inability to even give answers in a way that sounds as if someone somewhere knows the answer to the questions. It's like (I think Krisztina) said a couple of weeks back, as if someone inputted the code and then died. It took a full two weeks to get, at best, vague answers to the specific questions, and still it seems that the experience on the ground does not corroborate those answers in any way. Does anyone at Upwork truly know how it works, or is it made up from day to day?

 

(Nothing personal Valeria...)

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