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Re: Why would Upwork encourage arbitration (!) on a closed contract with $ 0 in Escrow??

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
11 of 79

@Jess C wrote:

@Prashant P wrote:

@Jess C wrote:

Never ever ever ever will I work for a fixed price on this platform. This is all very eye-opening and highly disturbing.


 Well that is a very good plan, but have your read and understood the ToS completely? 


Yes, thank you. No patronizing necessary.


 Jess, the mediation and arbitration thing can be applied to hourly jobs as well, which is what Prashant was hinting at.

 

If the money was paid within the last 30 days, the client can move to mediation assistance and yes, that can ultimately end in arbitration in exactly the same way.

 

Edited to add:

 

 Vladimir, let me sum your post up, if I may:

 

As a freelancer, if a client decides to go to arbitration, I have only 3 choices.

  1. Give in to whatever the client demands
  2. Pay for arbitration
  3. Lose my Upwork account.

Sounds about right? And that applies to both hourly and fixed rate contracts.

 

Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
12 of 79

Petra and others,

 

Please refer to the Hourly Escrow Instructions for all applicable terms.  There is no arbitration offered on hourly contracts, and while mediation is offered you are required to participate and failure to participate can result in action on your account.  For hourly contracts, Upwork will apply the Hourly Payment Protection provisions (Sections 6 and 7)  of the Hourly Escrow Instructions, but otherwise mediation is not binding.

~ Valeria
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Active Member
Maxym F Member Since: Dec 5, 2019
13 of 79

There is no arbitration offered on hourly contracts.

 

Valeria, is this correct?

Community Guru
Jess C Member Since: Feb 18, 2015
14 of 79

@Petra R wrote:

Jess, the mediation and arbitration thing can be applied to hourly jobs as well, which is what Prashant was hinting at.

 

If the money was paid within the last 30 days, the client can move to mediation assistance and yes, that can ultimately end in arbitration in exactly the same way.


Yeah, um, no, that's not the case. See Valeria's comments here, or read the ToS on hourly contracts.

Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
15 of 79

One guy just posted a message saying that he benefited from the hourly protection during a contract since something went wrong on the client's side. He copy/pasted the e-mail that Upwork sent to him, announcing the good news.

 

On week after, he added, the money was gone, sent back to the client. No explanation from Upwork other than a reminder from the ToS that: in cases of fraud, abuse or violation of the User Agreement, the Upwork Payment Guarantee shall be revoked and all monies due to the Contractor may be held and/or reclaimed.

 

Here it is.

 

Of course, we don't know the whole story, but it seems that in some cases, there is no payment protection for hourlies.

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Community Guru
Prashant P Member Since: Sep 29, 2015
16 of 79

@Jess C wrote:

@Prashant P wrote:



 Well that is a very good plan, but have your read and understood the ToS completely? 


Yes, thank you. No patronizing necessary.


 No Jess I was not patronizing.  I was just expanding on my earlier post that Upwork's ToS is more like Sheldon's (Big Bang Theory) "Roomate Agreement" - ever green and always in his favor.

Community Guru
Ela K Member Since: Feb 9, 2015
17 of 79

@Vladimir G wrote:

Hi Petra,

 

Sorry for the late follow-up. Clients can request arbitration even if there are no funds in Escrow and after the contract is closed and payment made, and freelancers must participate in arbitration per our ToS. Not sure if this answers your question and if you'd like to get a more detailed explanation, you can ask the party in question to contact our team for an explanation.


What the heck? I MUST pay $291? 

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Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
18 of 79

I am assuming there is the same 30-day deadline for both dispute and arbitration?

 

Petra's question hasn't quite been answered. If a client wants his or her money back for a job badly done, and there is nothing in escrow (job done, dusted and feedback given) and decides to take it to arbitration they are not likely to get their money back (given possible distances and further legal costs), even if they win the case. In fact the client will have lost even more money and will only have the satisfaction of seeing the freelancer's account suspended if the freelancer refuses to pay. It seems that arbitration can only give (a modicum) of satisfaction to the freelancer if there is money in escrow and the freelancer wins the case.

 

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
19 of 79

@Nichola L wrote:

I am assuming there is the same 30-day deadline for both dispute and arbitration?

 

Petra's question hasn't quite been answered. If a client wants his or her money back for a job badly done, and there is nothing in escrow (job done, dusted and feedback given) and decides to take it to arbitration they are not likely to get their money back (given possible distances and further legal costs), even if they win the case. In fact the client will have lost even more money and will only have the satisfaction of seeing the freelancer's account suspended if the freelancer refuses to pay. It seems that arbitration can only give (a modicum) of satisfaction to the freelancer if there is money in escrow and the freelancer wins the case.

 


 This is true if the freelancer is willing to have his/her Upwork account suspended and never return. But, there's no way to continue working, nor to receive other funds that are working their way through Upwork, without complying with arbitration.

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
20 of 79

@Ela K wrote:

@Vladimir G wrote:

Hi Petra,

 

Sorry for the late follow-up. Clients can request arbitration even if there are no funds in Escrow and after the contract is closed and payment made, and freelancers must participate in arbitration per our ToS. Not sure if this answers your question and if you'd like to get a more detailed explanation, you can ask the party in question to contact our team for an explanation.


What the heck? I MUST pay $291? 


 Well, no...you can "reach an agreement" with the client. That may mean refunding the whole contract. But, yeah--those are your only two choices. Come up with something that satisfies the client or pay for arbitration.

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