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Why would Upwork encourage arbitration (!) on a closed contract with $ 0 in Escrow??

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
41 of 79

@Valeria K wrote:

Petra,

 

The client will be able to file for arbitration only on the contract that's inside of the arbitration window as outlined in Upwork ToS. Upwork dispute team will be assisting both the client and the freelancer with the process directly.


 Unless the freelancer in the mentioned thread is lying, the client is DISPUTING both (!) contracts currently and he should not be able to have even disputed a contract that is outside the 30 day window.

 

I am sure "Upwork dispute team will be assisting both the client and the freelancer with the process directly" (which, as we all know, -sorry Valeria, I know you're just the messenger-, is code for "please stop drawing attention to this issue") but honest to god...  This. Is. Not. Right.

 

Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
42 of 79

Petra, 

 

We have shared a lot of information and clarification around the way the dispute and arbitration processes work in general on this thread. None of this is new and the dispute team has been following the ToS and these same processes for years since Escrow Protection was introduced on Upwork. 

 

We won't be able to discuss details of a specific case here and I'll have to ask you to refrain from doing so as well since complete information isn't being shared here.

 

Thank you.

~ Valeria
Untitled
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
43 of 79

Valeria, perhaps you can clear up one concrete issue that does not have to do specifically with any individual case and may set some minds at ease: Are there or are there not circumstances under which a client can initiate a dispute outside the 30-day window, and if so what are they and where may we find that provision in the TOS?

Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
44 of 79

@Tiffany S wrote:

Valeria, perhaps you can clear up one concrete issue that does not have to do specifically with any individual case and may set some minds at ease: Are there or are there not circumstances under which a client can initiate a dispute outside the 30-day window, and if so what are they and where may we find that provision in the TOS?


 

Tiffany,

 

The answer is "No" for hourly contracts and fixed-price contracts with no money funded in Escrow.

~ Valeria
Untitled
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
45 of 79

Thank you, Valeria.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
46 of 79

@Valeria K wrote:
. None of this is new and the dispute team has been following the ToS and these same processes for years since Escrow Protection was introduced on Upwork.

 So it is pure co-incidence that nobody ever posted about it or was fully aware of it, and now there are two cases in a month. OK...

 


@Valeria K wrote:

We won't be able to discuss details of a specific case here and I'll have to ask you to refrain from doing so as well since complete information isn't being shared here.



 I will do so because I have no choice.

Under protest.

 

Community Guru
Isabelle Anne A Member Since: May 19, 2014
47 of 79

This sort of reminds me of the fact that clients can request chargebacks months after the payment has been made - but the difference is that they'd banned from Upwork, right?

 

In the situation Petra posted about, would the client be banned/suspended if they lose the arbitration after it's found they're unnecessarily disputing the payment?

 

And sorry if this is a dumb question - but if a freelancer wins the dispute, do they get back the arbitration fees?

Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
48 of 79

@Isabelle Anne A wrote:

This sort of reminds me of the fact that clients can request chargebacks months after the payment has been made - but the difference is that they'd banned from Upwork, right?

 

In the situation Petra posted about, would the client be banned/suspended if they lose the arbitration after it's found they're unnecessarily disputing the payment?

 

And sorry if this is a dumb question - but if a freelancer wins the dispute, do they get back the arbitration fees?


 ___________________________

As I understand it, nobody gets the arbitration fee back whoever wins. And if a party refuses to participate in arbitration, that party will have their account suspended; so presumably if a client refuses, their account will be suspended. The question as to how long for is yet to be answered.

Community Guru
Prashant P Member Since: Sep 29, 2015
49 of 79

@Nichola L wrote:


 

And sorry if this is a dumb question - but if a freelancer wins the dispute, do they get back the arbitration fees?


 ___________________________

As I understand it, nobody gets the arbitration fee back whoever wins. And if a party refuses to participate in arbitration, that party will have their account suspended; so presumably if a client refuses, their account will be suspended. The question as to how long for is yet to be answered.


 Yeah, but it is very easy for them to get "re-incarnated".  They just have to use different e-mail and credit card.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
50 of 79

I guess there would never be a need to suspend a client for not playing along with arbitration, as the freelancer does not want anything from the client, the client wants something from the freelancer.

 

So in case of a fixed rate contract, if the freelancer pays for arbitration and the client does not:

  • the freelancer gets the arbitration fee back and the funds in Escrow, client goes home.

or

  • the freelancer gets to keep the money that has already been paid and the client goes home

In the case of hourly mediation, if the freelancer pays the arbitration fee and the client does not:

    • the freelancer gets to keep the money that has already been paid and the client goes home
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