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tillymonster
Community Member

Why would enabling feedback or leaving feedback EVER expire?

I was told by support that there is a policy that states after a certain time frame you are unable to leave feedback and apparently can't ask the client to change feedback either. Why would a policy like this exist? I would really love a  logical explanation. IMHO, I should be able to leave feedback on a contract up to 6 months old (that’s not a long time if you work with "long-term" clients like Upwork pushes). I should be able to ask a client to change feedback on a contract too at ANY time.

Is this policy relatively new? I remember being able to do the above things more then a few months after the contract closed and now apparently I can’t. Why?

16 REPLIES 16
michael_skaggs
Community Member

Feedback is only left on contracts that have been completed or otherwise closed. And once it's closed you're leaving feedback on that particular contract, not your entire relationship with the client. It takes all of 5-10 minutes tops to rate that contract in a category and leave some relevant commentary, so there should be no reason to change it later.

 

If you have a great contract with a client, but a bad experience another time, your feedback on one shouldn't cloud the other, because it doesn't change what transpired either way. It's always about the specific contract you worked on and nothing more.

So, if I left some feedback/review on some work that was done, I can’t delete the comment?


Stephanie C wrote:

So, if I left some feedback/review on some work that was done, I can’t delete the comment?


If you left a poor feedback and want to change it to a better one, you can ask the freelancer to enable you by chosing the contract in question. The freelancer might agree to that.

If you want to change a positiv feedback to a negativ feedback, you might have a hard time convincing the freelancer to let you change the feedback. 

A freelancer can remove the feedback by refunding the money paid but the private feedback will stay.

petra_r
Community Member


Stephanie C wrote:

So, if I left some feedback/review on some work that was done, I can’t delete the comment?


Why would you want to do that?

 

You can't just delete it, no yourself, no. You can ask the freelancer to allow you to change it, ot contact support to have a comment you left removed altogether.

tlbp
Community Member


Tilly P wrote:

I was told by support that there is a policy that states after a certain time frame you are unable to leave feedback and apparently can't ask the client to change feedback either. Why would a policy like this exist? I would really love a  logical explanation. IMHO, I should be able to leave feedback on a contract up to 6 months old (that’s not a long time if you work with "long-term" clients like Upwork pushes). I should be able to ask a client to change feedback on a contract too at ANY time.

Is this policy relatively new? I remember being able to do the above things more then a few months after the contract closed and now apparently I can’t. Why?


Why would the feedback time frames for which you are advocating be a better option? If reviews are intended to inform others about the freelancer's or the client's performance, wouldn't it be beneficial for that feedback to be entered as soon as possible and begin serving that purpose? Is someone really going to remember more about their experience 6 months after the contract closes than they do at the time it closes? 

browersr
Community Member


Tilly P wrote:

.... I should be able to ask a client to change feedback on a contract too at ANY time


No you should not. This opens the door to manipulation. For example, "hey client, if you don't change your review to be more positive I am going to stall on this thing you really need. I am going to accidentally delete this thing you wanted. I am going to..." Whether stated that bluntly or not, the reality is that it opens the door to bad behavior or the threat of bad behavior and thus weakens the reliability of the review. Now of course you personally may never consider doing this but I guarantee you others on this site have done this very thing and more would if the review policy was made more liberal. 

Here's a scenario: You get really sick when the client closes contract out. A month goes by and you see client left feedback for you but you  didn't leave  any due to illness. That is just one of the MANY scenarios where feedback timeframes being extended would make sense. Leaving feedback immeditely sounds great but real life isn't like that.

 

Another scenario: Say you have a "long term contract" that you worked on for YEARS. When  you leave feedback, it's based on those YEARS not just how you felt when you closed it out.


Tilly P wrote:

Another scenario: Say you have a "long term contract" that you worked on for YEARS. When  you leave feedback, it's based on those YEARS not just how you felt when you closed it out.


So you leave feedback based on your overall experience during the contract as a whole. There's no running clock until the contract is actually closed, because there would be no point in leaving feedback on something that's not finished. Regardless of the length of the contract, you simply leave feedback based on that particular contract as a whole. It needn't be any more complicated than that.

 

As for getting sick and a client closing the contract, if you're so ill that you're unable to work for an extended period, you have more pressing concerns than feedback on one single contract. And a one-off ocurrence is no grounds for changing an entire policy.

 

And finally, as others have said, allowing for feedback well after a contract is closed, or arbitrary changes to existing feedback does nothing but open the door for abuse. I said it earlier, and I'll say it again: Feedback is meant to reflect your experience for a single contract, not your entire client relationship. And if it's a contract lasting months, or even years, you will still have the opportunity to leave your feedback when it closes. If you choose to only leave feedback based on how you feel at the end, rather than as the contract as a whole, that's not Upwork's problem.

I disagree Scott. I think at any time a freelancer should be able to ask a client to change feedback. I for one have had  an upset client close a contract and leave feedback  based on how they were feeling THAT DAY and not leave anything about how positive most of the experience was. I had NO IDEA the client even had an issue until they closed out a contract and only left that information in the feedback! That is where the most manipulation lies IMHO.


I've even proposed new contracts to these particular clients I mention above who ask me  if they can change their feedback later. It was something that could be done and now can't. 

Can anyone offer a real explaination as to *why* this was changed? It's hard enough keeping a good JSS  and now I have to worry about keeping on top of feedback time frames. I like to reflect on the work I did before leaving feedback and hate being forced to do it right away. It's not accurate that way. I was around when it was oDesk and clients AND freelancers were using the 5 star system. Let me tell you,  that was MUCH better then JSS and much more equal but this is OT.

kochubei_valeria
Community Member

Hi Tilly,

 

Upwork feedback system is double-blind, which means that after one party closes the contract and leaves feedback, it will become public either once the other party leaves theirs or 14 days after the contract was closed.

Two things to note:

- There is an option that allows one party to enable the other party to change their feedback.

- Private feedback and its effect on JSS can't be changed.

 

Check out this post for more information about feedback.

 

~ Valeria
Upwork

You are giving scenarios that might be germane to your specific circumstance but I'd suggest are not the norm. Can someone get ill for the entire period of the review process? Of course. Does that actually happen for the vast majority of contracts? No. You are not going to find a system that work perfectly for ever single possible scenario so you need to work with one that fits the majority. If the client leaves poor initial feedback what is going to happen in order for them to change it later? Sure it's possible that they will sleep on it and come back more reasoned but I'd guess the majority of times they may come back it will be because of undue influence. Again the system should be designed to work for what generally happens and not for the much more rare unfortunate circumstance.  You also do have the ability to respond their response if you really want. No that won't help the JSS which is really what this thread is about. 


Valeria K wrote:

Hi Tilly,

 

Upwork feedback system is double-blind, which means that after one party closes the contract and leaves feedback, it will become public either once the other party leaves theirs or 14 days after the contract was closed.

Two things to note:

- There is an option that allows one party to enable the other party to change their feedback.

- Private feedback and its effect on JSS can't be changed.

 

Check out this post for more information about feedback.

 


This is probably the crux of your problem, Tilly.  I was just able to ask a client from a while back to give feedback.  I'd completed the job this summer, but neither of us ever closed the contract, until I noticed my JSS plummet (around the time this and some other old contracts were hitting their thresholds for the algorithmic calculations).  I ended the contract myself, contacted the client, and was allowed to enable feedback for him.  Now, this may be because he entered his feedback within 14 days of me closing the contract, but I didn't have any problems allowing him to change his feedback.

Still, I wish I'd just made sure the contract was closed as soon as the job was done and that I'd asked him for feedback right away.  That really is the best practice, and you can bet I'll be following it from now on.  I don't know if this helps with your specific situation, other than to say that you may still be able to get them to change your public feedback, but Valeria said, you can't have them change the private feedback.  And for clarification, speaking as someone who has just gone through the feedback process as a client, the private feedback only consists of how likely (1-10) they are to recommend you, and they are given a list from which to choose the FLs biggest strengths.  It's not as bad as it sounds.  When I first heard that term "private feedback, I envisioned people leaving nasty Yelp-style reviews to UW monitors in some dark tower somewhere.  Not the case.  Just a simple 1-10 for recommendation likelihood.

Tilly, whether or not you disagree with having at most 14 days after a contract closes to leave feedback, there has to be some window beyond which feedback cannot be given, because due to Upwork's double blind system, client feedback will not be visible until the freelancer leaves feedback, or 14 days have elapsed. And a lengthy period like 6 months would provide a way for freelancers to postpone client feedback they know will be negative, and that can do a disservice to other clients if a freelancer misbehaves but postpones feedback so he can victimize other clients with impunity over the next 6 months.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
petra_r
Community Member


John K wrote:

Tilly, whether or not you disagree with having at most 14 days after a contract closes to leave feedback, there has to be some window beyond which feedback cannot be given, because due to Upwork's double blind system, client feedback will not be visible until the freelancer leaves feedback, or 14 days have elapsed. And a lengthy period like 6 months would provide a way for freelancers to postpone client feedback they know will be negative, and that can do a disservice to other clients if a freelancer misbehaves but postpones feedback so he can victimize other clients with impunity over the next 6 months.


I think her main point is that it is no longer possible to enable a feedback *change* after some time has passed. That used to be possible, but isn't any longer.

 

Personally, I can not see myself ask a client to change feedback unless there was something like a mistake where a client left feedback for the wrong freelancer.

I'd think it tacky.

tlbp
Community Member

I've noticed that almost every time someone has some great suggestion about changing feedback for the good of everyone, it is in reality carefully tailored to repair their own reputation. "I got back feedback on a Tuesday, I think clients are in a bad mood on Tuesday. All feedback given on Tuesdays should be removed." 🙄

melaniekhenson
Community Member

I think this would just encourage client-stalking 😄 and we all know what happened last time client-stalking and constant begging became a huge problem...private feedback, LOL.

Let's be careful what we wish for! 😉
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