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Why you should avoid Fixed Priced, And use multiple platforms.

Ace Contributor
Mostafa A Member Since: Oct 20, 2016
71 of 106

Joan S wrote:

Well, Mostafa, where I come out on all this is that you should avoid fixed rate contracts but I will not.


I would say developers should avoid it, editors should not, like I said Fixed Price model is easier crashing on bigger projects that may require more complicated communication

Community Guru
Amanda L Member Since: Jan 23, 2018
72 of 106

My projects are quite complicated and have many moving parts and take multiple months to complete. Fixed price works just fine for me. And it clearly works well for other developers too. If it doesn't work for you that is fine; it does not mean it's bad for every developer, nor does it mean writers/editors or other professionals have less complicated projects than you. 

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
73 of 106

Mostafa A wrote:

Can you tell me where in your terms, that after losing the escrow dispute I should refund your client from my pocket? Can you tell me where is that in any terms of a freelancing platform? What if your arbitrator decided that a party should pay 1 million dollars because he found this resolution in the story he liked to adopt?


dumb.jpg

 

There has to come a point where you will stop making a public spectacle of your mismanagement of your contract. Why don't you take a deep breath and begin to understand how you can avoid this kind of abject nonsense in the future...

 

 

Ace Contributor
Mostafa A Member Since: Oct 20, 2016
74 of 106

Petra R wrote:

Mostafa A wrote:

Can you tell me where in your terms, that after losing the escrow dispute I should refund your client from my pocket? Can you tell me where is that in any terms of a freelancing platform? What if your arbitrator decided that a party should pay 1 million dollars because he found this resolution in the story he liked to adopt?


dumb.jpg

 


Got that thanks, thanks god he cannot issue 1 million refund

Community Guru
Amanda L Member Since: Jan 23, 2018
75 of 106

Mostafa A wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Mostafa A wrote:

Can you tell me where in your terms, that after losing the escrow dispute I should refund your client from my pocket? Can you tell me where is that in any terms of a freelancing platform? What if your arbitrator decided that a party should pay 1 million dollars because he found this resolution in the story he liked to adopt?


dumb.jpg

 


Got that thanks, thanks god he cannot issue 1 million refund


Why in the world would he be able to do that? I really encourage you to become more familiar with ALL of UpWork's TOS regarding both fixed and hourly projects.  It seems like you've been lucky up to this point that there hasn't been any kind of miscommunication with the client, but I worry for you that you are on the road to additionaly disputes if you continue to work on UpWork without a clear grasp of the realities of how they allow things to be set up and the rules they go by. It was obvious to all of us what the outcome of your dispute would be, based on UpWork's TOS, yet it was not obvious to you. To me that says you are not as clear as you think you are on the TOS. Better to be safe than sorry, I say.  Even if you're only going to stick to hourly from now, make sure you're fully versed on the rules of hourly contracts and payments so  this doesn't happen again but now with an hourly dispute. 

 

Believe it or not, we're rooting for you, not against you, which is why we're trying to help you understand where the misunderstanding is and where your mistakes were in this case. We all make mistakes. True growth comes when you admit them and learn from them. 

 

Best of luck. 

Ace Contributor
Mostafa A Member Since: Oct 20, 2016
76 of 106

Amanda L wrote:

Mostafa A wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Mostafa A wrote:

Can you tell me where in your terms, that after losing the escrow dispute I should refund your client from my pocket? Can you tell me where is that in any terms of a freelancing platform? What if your arbitrator decided that a party should pay 1 million dollars because he found this resolution in the story he liked to adopt?


dumb.jpg

 


Got that thanks, thanks god he cannot issue 1 million refund


Why in the world would he be able to do that? I really encourage you to become more familiar with ALL of UpWork's TOS regarding both fixed and hourly projects.  It seems like you've been lucky up to this point that there hasn't been any kind of miscommunication with the client, but I worry for you that you are on the road to additionaly disputes if you continue to work on UpWork without a clear grasp of the realities of how they allow things to be set up and the rules they go by. It was obvious to all of us what the outcome of your dispute would be, based on UpWork's TOS, yet it was not obvious to you. To me that says you are not as clear as you think you are on the TOS. Better to be safe than sorry, I say.  Even if you're only going to stick to hourly from now, make sure you're fully versed on the rules of hourly contracts and payments so  this doesn't happen again but now with an hourly dispute. 

 

Believe it or not, we're rooting for you, not against you, which is why we're trying to help you understand where the misunderstanding is and where your mistakes were in this case. We all make mistakes. True growth comes when you admit them and learn from them. 

 

Best of luck. 


I thought this line was not included in TOS but it was there, well it is legal according to terms that arbitrator can give the client all freelancer's earned money. 


I am very happy to be wrong when knowing something new. It is not "We" vs "You" I assume you are also freelancers we are the same, you can defend Upwork as you want I can also share my experience and this is the purpose of the community?.

After all missing such line does not mean I missed all the terms.


I think it is very good we are diging more into the terms and see what you as a freelancer can face with the Fixed Price Projects, you can end with paying all the money you earned, amazing. I believe many freelancers will find this post useful. I have been freelancing 10 years and never seen that.

Community Guru
Joan S Member Since: Mar 18, 2019
77 of 106

Mostafa - Why would you even think that would be a possibility?

Ace Contributor
Mostafa A Member Since: Oct 20, 2016
78 of 106

1 million dollars is just expression because I believe the arbitration is random, 

for example, If we are working on a solid TOS system that the "Arbitrator" and the "Upwork Dispute Agent" follow the same TOS, why their Award is different? The Agent suggested escrow release while the arbitrator gave client more money.

In my opinion both of them are wrong because , according to TOS when a freelancer deliver a project the client has only two choices "Approve and release" Or "Request Changes", and escrow is part of so called "Payment Protection" which Upwork only talked about.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
79 of 106

Mostafa wrote:

I believe the arbitration is random, 


It isn't random. You never stood a snowflake in hell's chance of winning arbitration for the reason you have been told over and over and over and over again, but try to ignore because you prefer presenting yourself as a victim rather than accepting you made a mistake.

 

You refused to hand over the code for the milestone you had already been paid for.

 


Mostafa A wrote:

The Agent suggested escrow release while the arbitrator gave client more money.

Untrue? The mediator did **NOT** suggest that at all. The mediator suggested that the Escrow money be returned to the client, but that you keep the money for the first milestone.

 

The mediator can not make a decision, only suggest a compromise. 

The decision was made by the arbitrator.

 


Mostafa A wrote:

In my opinion both of them are wrong 

It's been explained to you, over and over again. For some reason you either can't or don't want to grasp the basic concept.

Ultimately it does not matter. The ruling is legally binding. Pay up, man up, move on.

 


according to TOS when a freelancer deliver a project the client has only two choices "Approve and release" Or "Request Changes",


Wrong.

Please take another look at the ToS. Properly this time.

If it still does not sink in, find someone with lots of patience to explain it to you.

Active Member
Hakan O Member Since: Apr 22, 2019
80 of 106

Mostafa,

Is $1,400 total amount you offered, or is it the sum of two milestones?

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