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renata101
Community Member

Will closing a contract in which no money has been paid hurt my JSS?

About two weeks ago I was hired by a client who said he would be sending me the work he wanted me to do in the near future. What I've discovered recently is that he has also hired a second freelancer to do the same work for 1/3 less than I charge. 

I am assuming that the work I was expecting to receive from this client may never materialize.

My question is this: Will it hurt my JSS to close a contract in which no money has been paid?  Also, will it hurt my JSS to have an open contract that is inactive? I'm not sure what to do in this case.  

25 REPLIES 25
petra_r
Community Member


Renata S wrote:


1) My question is this: Will it hurt my JSS to close a contract in which no money has been paid?  2) Also, will it hurt my JSS to have an open contract that is inactive?


1) Yes.

2) Yes, if nothing was ever paid, it will: depending on whether it is hourly or fixed rate after 60-90 days.

 

Never accept a contract until you have what you need to start working and either finish a first milestone or log some time.

 

 

 


Petra R wrote:

Renata S wrote:


1) My question is this: Will it hurt my JSS to close a contract in which no money has been paid?  2) Also, will it hurt my JSS to have an open contract that is inactive?


1) Yes.

2) Yes, if nothing was ever paid, it will: depending on whether it is hourly or fixed rate after 60-90 days.

 

Never accept a contract until you have what you need to start working and either finish a first milestone or log some time.

 

 

 


How much do I have to earn for it not to be a problem? Can I tell the client to pay me a nominal amount, for instance $1 or something, just so that I can close out the contract without it affecting my score? 

 


Renata S wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Renata S wrote:


1) My question is this: Will it hurt my JSS to close a contract in which no money has been paid?  2) Also, will it hurt my JSS to have an open contract that is inactive?


1) Yes.

2) Yes, if nothing was ever paid, it will: depending on whether it is hourly or fixed rate after 60-90 days.

 

Never accept a contract until you have what you need to start working and either finish a first milestone or log some time.


How much do I have to earn for it not to be a problem? Can I tell the client to pay me a nominal amount, for instance $1 or something, just so that I can close out the contract without it affecting my score? 

 


Yes, that is what I've done not that long ago. The client's project fell through between him hiring me one evening and the work starting the next morning. I had him pay me a couple of Dollars and the contract was neutralised.

 


Ambrož B wrote:

Renata,

 

Yes it will hurt (especially if it is fixed-price, because on hour paid contract you can still try to log some minutes, but with fixed-price you cannot).


With fixed rate you can submit for a Dollar as a retainer...

 

florydev
Community Member

So what’s the wise play here? Ask for the payment I get but do you want the client to close the contract? Would it be better to avoid the feedback?
petra_r
Community Member


Mark F wrote:
So what’s the wise play here? Ask for the payment I get but do you want the client to close the contract? Would it be better to avoid the feedback?

Why would you get poor feedback? Chances are the client won't leave any because they are embarrassed that they hired someone and never came through, so I'd get something paid and then close it myself.

 

florydev
Community Member

I really wouldn’t want any feedback, what could they say that would be of use really?
petra_r
Community Member


Mark F wrote:
I really wouldn’t want any feedback, what could they say that would be of use really?

"I have to really apologize to Renata for being a complete dipstick and messing her around. She was nothing but patient while I, devoid of any clue as I am,  blundered my way through hiring a freelancer , and I shall be eternally grateful to her. Once I have removed my head from my backside and grown up, I look forward to working with her on a future project if she'll have me, which she probably won't, and quite rightly so."

 

florydev
Community Member

LOL, well that would be kind of fun to have on the profile.


Mark F wrote:
So what’s the wise play here? Ask for the payment I get but do you want the client to close the contract? Would it be better to avoid the feedback?

Oddly enough, even in cases where no work has been done and no money is paid out, the client still gets to leave internal feedback. That might have a more profound effect on the points dropping. 


pudingstudio
Community Member


Renata S wrote:

About two weeks ago I was hired by a client who said he would be sending me the work he wanted me to do in the near future. What I've discovered recently is that he has also hired a second freelancer to do the same work for 1/3 less than I charge. 

I am assuming that the work I was expecting to receive from this client may never materialize.

My question is this: Will it hurt my JSS to close a contract in which no money has been paid?  Also, will it hurt my JSS to have an open contract that is inactive? I'm not sure what to do in this case.  


When I have an open contract which is idle, first order of business is to contact my client. I want to know if we were to do this thing or not.

- If they are unresponsive, I close my contract and feel good that I don't have to be bothered by someone who doesn't care.

- If they respond vaguely, I ask for clarification. I deserve to know was the contract created just for fun or for work. I still feel good.

- If they do have work for me, I'm just happiest.

Obviously, I don't care enough about JSS; nothing I do is dictated by that acronym.

For your JSS concerns, await for Petra's response once again.
(saw it late)

Renata,

 

Yes it will hurt (especially if it is fixed-price, because on hour paid contract you can still try to log some minutes, but with fixed-price you cannot). Only solution would be if you contact the client and ask to pay you sth.

But honestly, you do not need to worry about. You have a huge project history, so one negative "feedback" will not significally hurt your JSS. You are lucky because you are doing mostly with a lot of short contracts, and it seems that Upwork system is more adjusted to this kind of jobs.

renata101
Community Member


Ambrož B wrote:

Renata,

 

Yes it will hurt (especially if it is fixed-price, because on hour paid contract you can still try to log some minutes, but with fixed-price you cannot). Only solution would be if you contact the client and ask to pay you sth.

But honestly, you do not need to worry about. You have a huge project history, so one negative "feedback" will not significally hurt your JSS. You are lucky because you are doing mostly with a lot of short contracts, and it seems that Upwork system is more adjusted to this kind of jobs.


Hi Ambrož, 

Yes, it's true that it may not hurt, but it does help to minimize the potential damage wherever possible. The impact may be larger during periods where I am not landing as many UpWork contracts. I would rather troubleshoot things where I can. I find it's best not to take anything for granted. 


Antun M wrote:

Obviously, I don't care enough about JSS; nothing I do is dictated by that acronym.


I would love to have that freedom, and I agree that in some fields, it's probably not a big deal. Unfortunately, I work in an area where people equate my JSS with my actual performance. For some freelancers, an 89% JSS may not be a disaster, but if you make part of your living proofreading and error checking, people may perceive this particular stat in the same way earned run average is understood for major league catchers in baseball, meaning you miss about 11% of the things you're supposed to catch.

(This may not have been the best analogy for me to run with because I don't really follow baseball. If you do and you want to jump in there with some free fact checking on my baseball knowledge, please be my guest.) 


Renata S wrote:

Antun M wrote:

Obviously, I don't care enough about JSS; nothing I do is dictated by that acronym.


I would love to have that freedom, and I agree that in some fields, it's probably not a big deal. Unfortunately, I work in an area where people equate my JSS with my actual performance. For some freelancers, an 89% JSS may not be a disaster, but if you make part of your living proofreading and error checking, people may perceive this particular stat in the same way earned run average is understood for major league catchers in baseball, meaning you miss about 11% of the things you're supposed to catch.

(This may not have been the best analogy for me to run with because I don't really follow baseball. If you do and you want to jump in there with some free fact checking on my baseball knowledge, please be my guest.) 


Earned run avg (ERA) is actually a pitcher's stat, not a catcher's. In any case, the comparison that might serve you is batting average--the number of at-bats divided by the number of hits hits divided by the number of at-bats. And the point would be that a major league baseball player with a batting average above .300 is typically among the leaders in the league, whereas a professional proofreader/editor doesn't want any number close to their name that's not 100% or darned close. It's a perception thing.

 


Phyllis G wrote:

Renata S wrote:

Antun M wrote:

Obviously, I don't care enough about JSS; nothing I do is dictated by that acronym.


I would love to have that freedom, and I agree that in some fields, it's probably not a big deal. Unfortunately, I work in an area where people equate my JSS with my actual performance. For some freelancers, an 89% JSS may not be a disaster, but if you make part of your living proofreading and error checking, people may perceive this particular stat in the same way earned run average is understood for major league catchers in baseball, meaning you miss about 11% of the things you're supposed to catch.

(This may not have been the best analogy for me to run with because I don't really follow baseball. If you do and you want to jump in there with some free fact checking on my baseball knowledge, please be my guest.) 


Earned run avg (ERA) is actually a pitcher's stat, not a catcher's. In any case, the comparison that might serve you is batting average--the number of at-bats divided by the number of hits. And the point would be that a major league baseball player with a batting average above .300 is typically among the leaders in the league, whereas a professional proofreader/editor doesn't want any number close to their name that's not 100% or darned close. It's a perception thing.

 


Thanks, Phyllis. I was trying to make that one work. The reason the RBI stat analogy might not be a good fit for proofreading is that you can get 10,000 hits that no one even realizes you made. But if you have a noticeable miss, everyone lets you hear about it.

lysis10
Community Member

That sucks, Renata, and yeah you should expect to lose a couple of points for it. 

 

My experience is that it's a pretty bad hit but I had 2 in my 6 months window at one time.

 

I had someone recently who found me on LinkedIn and then came to Upwork. I was a little annoyed because I coulda skipped Upwork fees until she contacted me here, but whatever she opened a contract here to pay me for an hour of my time. I have not had a lot of luck with LinkedIn and get more crap recruiters than anything else, so I took the documentation she sent me and billed 10 minutes to read it on Tracker. She paused the contract, got pissed and never returned. It was fine cuz I got money into the contract and closed it, but I didn't really feel like the phone call would have materialized anyway.

 

I agree that it's crappy to bill for something like that, but at the same time I gotta look out for me and this is the crap we got shoved on us thanks to the "please change my country to USA" people.


Jennifer M wrote:

That sucks, Renata, and yeah you should expect to lose a couple of points for it. 

 

My experience is that it's a pretty bad hit but I had 2 in my 6 months window at one time.

 

I had someone recently who found me on LinkedIn and then came to Upwork. I was a little annoyed because I coulda skipped Upwork fees until she contacted me here, but whatever she opened a contract here to pay me for an hour of my time. I have not had a lot of luck with LinkedIn and get more crap recruiters than anything else, so I took the documentation she sent me and billed 10 minutes to read it on Tracker. She paused the contract, got pissed and never returned. It was fine cuz I got money into the contract and closed it, but I didn't really feel like the phone call would have materialized anyway.

 

I agree that it's crappy to bill for something like that, but at the same time I gotta look out for me and this is the crap we got shoved on us thanks to the "please change my country to USA" people.


Thanks for sharing that. I wish someone at UW would realize that closing out contracts with no money exchanged can sometimes be the easiest way to solve things. 

I think I'm just going explain the situation to the client and just ask that he cover the minimum I could bill for, which seems to be 10 minutes. He can consider it a bit like buying me a drink for inconveniencing me. 


Renata S wrote:

I think I'm just going explain the situation to the client and just ask that he cover the minimum I could bill for, which seems to be 10 minutes. He can consider it a bit like buying me a drink for inconveniencing me. 

The client can also pay you a bonus of $ 1 or more.


Petra R wrote:

Renata S wrote:

I think I'm just going explain the situation to the client and just ask that he cover the minimum I could bill for, which seems to be 10 minutes. He can consider it a bit like buying me a drink for inconveniencing me. 

The client can also pay you a bonus of $ 1 or more.


Yes, that might be the fastest option. I didn't know the client could give a bonus if no work had been completed. But I still think I deserve the drink. Smiley Very Happy

 

You can also try to get a quick down and dirty job that you finish within this two weeks so that the great feedback you get there counteracts this contract.


Kelly B wrote:

You can also try to get a quick down and dirty job that you finish within this two weeks so that the great feedback you get there counteracts this contract.


I'm not sure that stupid algorithm works that way.

 

A few moths ago, a client with whom I was in discussion opened a contract. I didn't even accept it, and I'm sure that's the reason why all of a sudden my JSS went down. It took two months to go back to 100%, and now it has gone down again, most probably because one contract was left open for too long. Besides, when I asked the client to close it, he was travelling somewhere where he could not close it (planet Mars???) and I had to wait for his return to civilization. He was finally able to close the contract last week. Until then, every JSS day, I watched my JSS go down. Now it's at 94% and I expect it to take a while for it to go back to the top.

 

You know what? That algorithm is really unfair and most annoying.


Luce N wrote:

 

A few moths ago, a client with whom I was in discussion opened a contract. I didn't even accept it,


You mean they sent you an offer that you did not accept. Which has no effect on your JSS no matter how sure you are of the contrary.

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


Rene K wrote:

Luce N wrote:

 

A few moths ago, a client with whom I was in discussion opened a contract. I didn't even accept it,


You mean they sent you an offer that you did not accept. Which has no effect on your JSS no matter how sure you are of the contrary.

 


To be more precise, I didn't know what to do about it. I didn't accept it, didn't refuse it, just let it stay there until one day it disappeared. God only knows how the stupid algorythm interpreted that! Anyway, that was the only probable reason for the JSS to go down.


Luce N wrote:

 


To be more precise, I didn't know what to do about it. I didn't accept it, didn't refuse it, just let it stay there until one day it disappeared. God only knows how the stupid algorythm interpreted that! Anyway, that was the only probable reason for the JSS to go down.


The stupid algorithm interpreted this as an offer that was not accepted.

 

Maybe you feel better thinking that this had an influence on your JSS went down, but doing this prevents you from trying to find out the real reason why it went down, since offers that are not accepted play no role.

 

Mine would have been negative if this was the case.

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


Petra R wrote:


The client can also pay you a bonus of $ 1 or more.


It would be nice if Upwork could differentiate between hourly contracts with $0 earnings because all was refunded and hourly contracts with $0 because no work was billed.

 

In the first case a hit to the JSS is a good thing because many use the refund option to avoid bad feedback on their profile. In the second case on the other hand, this should have no impact on the JSS since it doesn't say anything about the FLer's performance.

 

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
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