Will someone please explain to me...(regarding erotica)

[bundie702]

...why erotica writing is supposed to be against Upwork's terms of service, yet jobs like this (and a client with a history of fulfilled jobs involving erotica and (a direct quote) "smut writing" are allowed? I'm very confused.

**Edited for community guidelines**

[holymell]

Because no one's reported them yet.

[bundie702]

That raises another question...doesn't anyone at Upwork monitor what's being posted? Do they not have any processes in place where all jobs being posted must first be approved? Or can someone post a job asking for someone to poison their boss (okay, I'm being overdramatic, but you get the point)? I mean, how much sense does it make for them to allow their freelancers to report jobs that are against the TOS? What kind of way is that to run a business?

Okay, I know I've gone too far with asking questions, but really...

In addition to this, I have seen jobs asking for free work and have reported them. It seems none of this would be necessary if they woulkd simply require all postings to be approved first. If someone *does* hire someone to poison their boss through the platform and they are held liable, I'll bet they'll change the way they do business then...

Just my 2 cents.

[holymell]

I think they do monitor to an extent, but they rely heavily on us, the users, to report jobs that violate the ToS.

I think they have algorithms that will flag certain posts, but some still get through. I see it a lot, too as I'm also in your category.

Edit- I know you know your example is extreme. I doubt a post like that would make it through. I hope not. That would have to be the world's dumbest criminal and I think he's occupied watching Fox News and whining on Twitter. Can I say that? Probably not.

[jr-translation]

I stopped wondering about this and consider it cultural differences.

There are several clients trying to make money with ICO or gambling websites. So I am not sure in what way these jobs are "better" than jobs involving literature with adult content. Just avoid some words when posting a job and check the proposals you get. I bet you could write non-erotic and somebody would flag the job description as well.

The ToU say:

Examples of prohibited uses of the Site or Site Services include:

• Seeking, offering, or endorsing illegal, obscene, or pornographic services or activities, including services (i) that would violate the intellectual property rights, including copyrights, of another person, entity, service, product, or website or (ii) that would involve the creation, review, or editing of pornographic, erotic, obscene, or sexually explicit material;
• Posting content that is offensive, defamatory, profane, vulgar, obscene, threatening, discriminatory, illegal, pornographic, obscene or sexually explicit in nature;

I agree that UW could monitor more. I reported a client that will "offer ways for you to avoid the fees." The only ways to avoid fees is too work outside UW or not at all. Yet a message like that is not enough evidence. I will not spend more time for UW to gather evidence it is their loss if freelancers agree to work for that client.

[renata101]

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@Bettye U wrote:

That raises another question...doesn't anyone at Upwork monitor what's being posted? Do they not have any processes in place where all jobs being posted must first be approved? Or can someone post a job asking for someone to poison their boss (okay, I'm being overdramatic, but you get the point)? I mean, how much sense does it make for them to allow their freelancers to report jobs that are against the TOS? What kind of way is that to run a business?

Okay, I know I've gone too far with asking questions, but really...

Bettye,

Seriously? I wish more people would go farther in asking questions. Because I handle academic editing, I fairly regularly see clients (students) posting requests for academic writing projects of all sorts that, as students, they really should be writing themselves. Sometimes these requests come from companies (paper mills) that operate fairly openly on the platform (although one company posts frequently in large capital letters that the projects being requested are NOT FOR ACADEMIC USE). Sometimes these posts include smoking guns, like the course assignment describing the essay, but sometimes people are a bit more creative in trying to mask what they're doing (there's at least one client out there who's pretending to be a European research institute). I flag them when I notice them, but I often see clients posting repeat jobs for "original essays" that are capable of passing copyscape. 

Most schools would not welcome the idea of an "original" thesis written by someone other than the student who's handing it in. I think this bothers me most when I see people posting jobs for graduate thesis writeups and law school assignments (although I've gotten pretty used to seeing the requests for ethics essays). UpWork supposedly has an Academic Integrity policy. So why do I keep seeing these jobs, especially with repeat clients?  I'm not sure how you can claim to have policy on this kind of stuff if the people reviewing it can't recognize what they should be seeing.  All I know is that I'm not encouraged by the fact that none of them seem to be  asking enough questions. 

Since UW is wide open to these clients posting and hiring for their writing jobs,  I especially appreciated one of your questions: What kind of way is that to run a business?

[bundie702]

Thank you for pointing that out about academic cheating, Renata. That's another situation that bugs me.

[bstojadinovic]

Hi Bettye,

Thank you for contacting us. You can flag job post if you think that it violates Upwork ToS and our team will investigate it further.

[colettelewis]

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@Bojan S wrote:

Hi Bettye,

Thank you for contacting us. You can flag job post if you think that it violates Upwork ToS and our team will investigate it further.

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 _________________________________

This is the point Bojan. We know we can flag a job post or a profile, but very often nothing is done about it particularly if a client (or sometimes a freelancer) is making good money on Upwork with smut or academic cheating. 

[luce-neidert]

I'm quite good at flagging, I do it quite a lot, but I doubt much happens afterwards.

Yes, I do get the "thank you for flagging' e-mail, but does Upwork do anything afterwards?

The other day, I got an invitation to translate a document that was full of filth, according to the client, and my question was, how do you flag and invitation?

[luce-neidert]

Oh, yes, I have another thing to say. Very often, those jobs are posted in French, is anyone at Upwork able to understand French? And I guess French is not the only language used to propose a job that does not follow TOS.

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Nichola and Luce,

Just to confirm that not all actions taken are public.

Job posts only on French or another language are not allowed, we do allow job postings in other languages but the client will need to translate and list an English version as well. Thank you!

[luce-neidert]

Can't help wondering what an action that is not public could be...

Also, this of asking clients to translate their post reminds me that Upwork is American. How many times did I have to answer (correctly) the question "Do you intend to assassinate the President of the United States?" in order to be allowed to enter the United States? Why would I say that I intend to assassinate the President of the United States if I meant to do so? I'm not that stupid.

All this to say that I'm not so sure I would trust a client's translation.

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Luce,

I understand your concerne, unfortenetly we can`t make all actions taken public.

We`ve received a positive feedback about updating our flagging options, Rene post here and Petra post here. We are always looking for an option on how to improve our process even further. Thank you!

[luce-neidert]

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@Goran V wrote:

Hi Luce,

I understand your concerne, unfortenetly we can`t make all actions taken public.

We`ve received a positive feedback about updating our flagging options, Rene post here and Petra post here. We are always looking for an option on how to improve our process even further. Thank you!

---

That gives me some hope. I agree, the new option about "something else" is useful, for example the other day I was able to explain in English what the French offer was about. Isn't that ironic? 

[colettelewis]

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@Goran V wrote:

Hi Nichola and Luce,

Just to confirm that not all actions taken are public.

Job posts only on French or another language are not allowed, we do allow job postings in other languages but the client will need to translate and list an English version as well. Thank you!

---

 ______________________________

Goran, some time ago, Valeria confirmed that job posts are allowed in foreign languages, and (as far as I remember) she said nothing about adding an English version as well. So when did this come about? 

As to actions being made public, we are all well aware that they are not. However, when clients and freelancers are allowed to continue flouting Upwork's ToS, this is not only public but infuriating and a clear indication that no action has been taken at all.

If a freelancer or client is suspended for violating the ToS and as a result of someone reporting them, then none of us care whether the action is public or not. What is important is that something has been done. 

I do wish the mods would stop being so condescending. We are well aware of what Upwork may or may not do. What we ask is that Upwork abides by its own rules.

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Nichola,

Please send me a PM with Valeria posts so that I can check the information shared there.
Just to confirm that we do allow job postings in another language, but the job post will also need to be translated on English and the translations to be included on the job post itself. Thank you!

[colettelewis]

This is not about whether or not we approve the new options, which are great, it is about action NOT being taken on people flouting Upwork's ToS. 

[petra_r]

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@Nichola L wrote:

This is not about whether or not we approve the new options, which are great, it is about action NOT being taken on people flouting Upwork's ToS. 

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 I have to say most things I flag are taken care of, and taken care of correctly and very, very quickly these days. Sometimes within literally minutes.

[luce-neidert]

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@Petra R wrote:

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@Nichola L wrote:

This is not about whether or not we approve the new options, which are great, it is about action NOT being taken on people flouting Upwork's ToS. 

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 I have to say most things I flag are taken care of, and taken care of correctly and very, very quickly these days. Sometimes within literally minutes.

 How do you know, Petra? Do the job offers disappear?

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[barada00]

They become private which might mean one of 2 things but since they turn private very short time after they are flagged I think it is the one meaning where UW closed the job.

[mwiggenhorn]

My understanding is that the flagged jobs are marked "private" while being investigated.