Dec 29, 2021 01:13:29 PM Edited Dec 29, 2021 01:16:16 PM by Zafer B
I took my first freelance work here. It had a requirements document with many missing details. So I gave my offer and we had our contract.
After that, the requirements changed one by one, with new additions, new features. It had to be completed last month but not even half of it is not completed according to the milestones.
1. App for Windows: Requirements are changing, new features are added, one by one.
2. App for Linux: Could not even be started.
We did many meetings, I had to help him redesign his architecture since the product I am working on would not meet the initial requirement of the whole service. It had a server and many desktop clients. It did not have licensing management, configuration management, an encryption system, etc. I designed his product for him. It cost me hours. But now I am stuck.
Under these circumstances, I want to end my contract. Since I spent more than 200 hours on it, it was too big to fail for me. But it became a lost cause. Since I will not provide a product, I assume I will not be paid. Has anyone experienced such a thing?
Solved! Go to Solution.
Dec 29, 2021 02:45:37 PM by Preston H
A fixed-price contract:
- is NOT used for a "moving target" project
- is NOT used with a "requirements document with many missing details."
- does NOT allow for "requirements that change one by one"
- does NOT allow "new additions, new features" to be introduced to milestone tasks
- does NOT have the same deadline if new milestones are added
- does NOT have ANY meetings, unless those meetings are specified in the written task agreement
- does NOT include redesign of the system architecture, unless THAT is a written task agreement
Dec 29, 2021 02:38:50 PM Edited Dec 30, 2021 01:05:07 AM by Preston H
re: "Working against a moving target"
That's fine!
A moving target is fine!
Not every client is "created equal."
Some clients know exactly what they want. Some don't.
As a freelancer, I get paid for my time. So a "moving target" may mean that the client pays more in the long run because they didn't have everything figured out. But I'm getting paid by the hour. So it works out fine for me.
re: "I took my first freelance work here. It had a requirements document with many missing details. So I gave my offer and we had our contract."
Lots of clients come with requirements documents that have many missing details. I may need to be the one to help the client answer those questions. I get paid for my time while doing so.
re: "After that, the requirements changed one by one, with new additions, new features."
This is NORMAL.
There is NOTHING WRONG with a changing list of requiements. I expect that as a project develops, the requirements will change and new requirements/new features will be added.
Have you used ANY major app that didn't change and grow and become better over the years?
re: "It had to be completed last month but not even half of it is not completed according to the milestones."
No, don't worry about a "completion" date.
Any serious business will plan to CONTINUE improving its app or website over time.
We talk about when this next version will be finished, or when this new screen will be implemented. We never talk about a "final completion date" in the sense that "this project is not finished and can't be changed or improved upon."
re: "We did many meetings"
Meetings can be useful. Or not.
I typically don't ask to schedule meetings. But clients and project managers often schedule meetings.
I dont mind either way, because I get paid for every minute I spend in meetings.
I get paid the same hourly whether or not the meeting is (a) useful, or (b) a waste of time.
re: "I had to help him redesign his architecture since the product I am working on would not meet the initial requirement of the whole service. It had a server and many desktop clients. It did not have licensing management, configuration management, an encryption system, etc. I designed his product for him. It cost me hours. But now I am stuck."
You said "it cost me hours."
What do you mean by that?
Working on this "moving target" project did not cost me hours.
I am the freelancer.
Working on this "moving target" project, helping the client redesign architecture, going to meeting, etc... all of these things cost the CLIENT hours.
I get paid by the hour, so it didn't "cost" me anythng.
re: "Under these circumstances, I want to end my contract. Since I spent more than 200 hours on it, it was too big to fail for me. But it became a lost cause. Since I will not provide a product, I assume I will not be paid. Has anyone experienced such a thing?"
Uh oh... Were you working on this using a FIXED-PRICE contract?
That's your mistake right there.
This was supposed to be an hourly contract.
Your hourly rate is $50/hour.
You worked on this for more than 200 hours.
Let's round it off to just 200.
That means that you have now earned $10,000 working on the project.
Unless you made the mistake of working on this using a fixed-price contract.
========
re: "Under these circumstances, I want to end my contract. Since I spent more than 200 hours on it, it was too big to fail for me. But it became a lost cause. Since I will not provide a product, I assume I will not be paid. Has anyone experienced such a thing?"
Zafer:
In order to help us better help you, please answer these questions:
a) How much in total have you already earned while working on this project?
b) How many milestones have already been completed and released?
c) How much money is currently in escrow?
Dec 29, 2021 02:45:37 PM by Preston H
A fixed-price contract:
- is NOT used for a "moving target" project
- is NOT used with a "requirements document with many missing details."
- does NOT allow for "requirements that change one by one"
- does NOT allow "new additions, new features" to be introduced to milestone tasks
- does NOT have the same deadline if new milestones are added
- does NOT have ANY meetings, unless those meetings are specified in the written task agreement
- does NOT include redesign of the system architecture, unless THAT is a written task agreement
Dec 29, 2021 11:43:28 PM by Zafer B
I learned these lessons the hard way. I believe that I will end the contract and close the Upwork account. I don't have time for this.
Dec 30, 2021 12:56:03 AM by Martina P
I don't want to pile on, but you didn't handle this professionally. You are the expert, you need to tell the client what the job will cost. If you find obstacles, you communicate with the client about the scope, changing to hourly, or ending it. At the beginning, not after 200 hours.
This could have gone very differently. I see this was a very unpleasant experience for you, but you shouldn't close your upwork account. You might want to use it in 5 or 10 years, who knows. Then you would regret closing it, since you can never open a new one.
Dec 30, 2021 01:48:07 AM by Zafer B
Thank you for honesty. Yes, I did not manage the work in a professional manner. I have never worked as a freelancer and never paid by hours but the job done. It turns out that I focused too much on completing the work.
The other problematic thing in this job is the estimates for me. As the seemingly less time consuming features required more time than estimated, it got out of hand. If I would be able to predict the obstacles to be that big, I would have a different approach to the project.
I don't know the reputation or whatever mechanism exists in Upwork. With only one failed work it won't be a ggod profile for future. That's why I think it won't work for me in the long run. But I'll keep it just in case. Thank you again.
Dec 30, 2021 02:35:42 AM by Nichola L
Zafer,
If this was a fixed-price job you can do three things:
1) Discuss it honestly with the client and if you feel you have done some of the work correctly without the overload, then ask him to pay you something from the money in escrow , and ask him to close the contract.
2) You can completely refund the client and tell him why - and yes - your future JSS will be impacted, but with more work and more experience, I think you will get over this.
3) You can simply close the contract and all the money in escrow will be returned to the client. Again, your future JSS will be impacted.
If this were me, I would probably try the first option, unless I felt I really had completely failed and that I owed the client, in which I case, I would simply refund the client.
As to your future on Upwork, only you can put this right. Make absolutely sure before starting any job that you and your client are on the same page as far as budget and expectations are concerned before you accept any contract.
Dec 29, 2021 11:42:05 PM by Zafer B
I set up an account in Upwork and got this job in the first couple of hours. It turned out to be a huge mistake. Never before have I failed or quit a task. So I wanted to make sure that I complete it. Yet, it was the mistake.
So, answers:
a) 0
b) 0 our of 2
c) Fixed price of 1200$. The cost of the project to me become higher than the cost to the client.
Dec 30, 2021 12:14:15 AM Edited Dec 30, 2021 12:15:50 AM by Igor Š
I would first inform the client that project cannot continue under such conditions, and have them switch it to hourly project.. If they refuse simply tell them they need to pay you something for work already done, also they need to add new milestones as project expand...
If client refuse you simply tell them you cannot continue in such terms and close contract, don't provide a single line of code to them unless they pay for it... The client and freelancer are equal, so you are not obligated to work for free to anybody..
Next time don't do complex projects without hourly or without well defined specifications...
Dec 30, 2021 01:14:03 AM by Preston H
There is nothing to be gained by closing your account. Do not close your account. Because you may want to use Upwork again. Even if you feel like you want to take a break.
It is fine to take a break.
If you never return, that is fine.
But if you decide to return... next week. Or next year. Or in five years... Then you'll be glad you did not close your account.
Dec 30, 2021 01:56:09 AM by Zafer B
Thanks for the advice. The motivation to close the account was not to have a gain but to minimize the harm. It's the first job and the job is failed. It would be a red flag in a profile. In my professional life, I never worked as freelance. The initial estimates of mine were incorrect and the problems increased over time. It became a costly lesson to me.
I will keep the profile open but I am not sure if I will use it. Thanks again.
Dec 30, 2021 01:51:26 AM by Zafer B
This seems like the way for me. I don't believe that there will be a next time, but this experience is a great lesson for me, a costly one.
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