Wrong feedback calculation

eric5037 · ‎03-20-2020

I have a feedback that doesn't seem very well calculated: 3.9 instead of 4.6.

Am I missing something?

gaspardjack · ‎03-20-2020

Hi Eric,

The calculation seems to be correct, I am seeing: 4+3+3+5+3+5= 23/6 = 3.83. /6 not /5!

eric5037 · ‎03-20-2020

Mohammed G wrote:
Hi Eric,
The calculation seems to be correct, I am seeing: 4+3+3+5+3+5= 23/6 = 3.83. /6 not /5!

thanks! what an awful feedback!

gaspardjack · ‎03-20-2020

Bad hits happen unfortunately, but the feedback is not that bad, the client noted you 5 on quality & cooperation and you have excellent feedbacks overall. You can still use your perk if there is any significant impact on your JSS in the next update.

eric5037 · ‎03-20-2020

Mohammed G wrote:
Bad hits happen unfortunately, but the feedback is not that bad, the client noted you 5 on quality & cooperation and you have excellent feedbacks overall. You can still use your perk if there is any significant impact on your JSS in the next update.

That's true + I've made 2 contracts of ·$300 and $400 that are 5 stars so it shouldn't be a problem at all with the new JSS calculation.

Nevertheless, I was going late I have to confess but the final result is impeccable.

And I quote:

"you guys are too used to getting 5s"
"its just like uber - people blindly give feedback"
"and then you get used to inflated scores"

prestonhunter · ‎03-20-2020

I agree that the system is being used incorrectly. Pure 5-star ratings across the board should be rare, if the system was being used as intended.

eric5037 · ‎03-21-2020

Preston H wrote:
I agree that the system is being used incorrectly. Pure 5-star ratings across the board should be rare, if the system was being used as intended.

You're absolutely right but I'm not used to have that kind of feedback when the final product is close to perfect. It took more time than planed because there are always problems which on the other hand makes the project more interesting: paradoxical !

What I think is that a lot of clients pay more in stars than in $ like "come on! do it for that price and I give you a big 5 stars creative feedback". Nevertheless, it depends on the client: the more you do little jobs, the more you'll find that kind of clients (I don't know about you Preston but in my case, it's not unsual I have to finish the analysis myself, clients are not used to it, they don't have to but they certainly don't want to pay for it, it fits or it does not)

Skills: 4.0 and Quality: 5.0. It seems the same to me so I'm asking an explanation to the client. If he knows how to measure something then he knows how to explain it. We'll see what he tells me but that surely won't happen until next monday so I will have to wait to know the end of the story.

In the meanwhile, what do I have? a "come on! not that important, you have a lot of 5 stars feedback, it won't hurt. on the next job, I will give you 5 stars and a bonus".

petra_r · ‎03-21-2020

Eric B wrote:
Skills: 4.0 and Quality: 5.0. It seems the same to me so I'm asking an explanation to the client. If he knows how to measure something then he knows how to explain it. We'll see what he tells me.

You are asking the client to justify their feedback?

This is exactly the kind of thing that led to us having a JSS system and private feedback.

Public feedback is mostly irrelevant for the JSS, it's all about the private feedback (mainly because unprofessional freelancers were arguing with clients over their feedback, asking for it to be changed and so on)

eric5037 · ‎03-21-2020

Petra R wrote:
Eric B wrote:
Skills: 4.0 and Quality: 5.0. It seems the same to me so I'm asking an explanation to the client. If he knows how to measure something then he knows how to explain it. We'll see what he tells me.
You are asking the client to justify their feedback?

This is exactly the kind of thing that led to us having a JSS system and private feedback.

Public feedback is mostly irrelevant for the JSS, it's all about the private feedback (mainly because unprofessional freelancers were arguing with clients over their feedback, asking for it to be changed and so on)

yes if less than 5. it is meant to understand what failed and if agreed, work on it. It seems logical to identify what's failing and how it can be avoided on future projects.

public feedback may be mostly irrelevant to JSS but sometimes useful when a client check your profile.

one way or the other, that is the exception that proves the rule and I want to know how to better it. nevertheless, clients don't really take into account the price which seems key to me and the possible problems. those problems lead to waste more time, win less and being punished for that doesn't seem really fair to me.

lysis10 · ‎03-21-2020

eh even if you get rated down on a small contract you're still gonna take a hit IME. I don't think it's weighted very hard. Most of my contracts are in the thousands, but a $220 contract where I'm guessing I was rated 7-9 dropped me a point. Before that, I was 99% and I know exactly what contract was holding me down. It's a $75 contract.

eric5037 · ‎03-21-2020

Jennifer M wrote:
eh even if you get rated down on a small contract you're still gonna take a hit IME. I don't think it's weighted very hard. Most of my contracts are in the thousands, but a $220 contract where I'm guessing I was rated 7-9 dropped me a point. Before that, I was 99% and I know exactly what contract was holding me down. It's a $75 contract.

Well, it is the exception that proves the rule, if you look closely my feedbacks, you'll observe that every project with a very few exception are all 5 stars. I had recently 2 great gigs, one of $400 and the other $300 with 5 stars too so I don't think that 100$ contract will weigh a lot. I shouldn't even feel it.

lysis10 · ‎03-21-2020

Eric B wrote:
Well, it is the exception that proves the rule, if you look closely my feedbacks, you'll observe that every project with a very few exception are all 5 stars. I had recently 2 great gigs, one of $400 and the other $300 with 5 stars too so I don't think that 100$ contract will weigh a lot. I shouldn't even feel it.

You will. A $75 contract among contracts with thousands of dollars on them dropped me a point even after the update. Then, the $220 dropped me another point. There is a stark contrast between my contracts that are rated well and the ones that are holding me down. We're talking numerous $3000 contracts and even just one $75 where I would guess I was rated 8-9 held me at 99%.

eric5037 · ‎03-21-2020

Jennifer M wrote:
Eric B wrote:
Well, it is the exception that proves the rule, if you look closely my feedbacks, you'll observe that every project with a very few exception are all 5 stars. I had recently 2 great gigs, one of $400 and the other $300 with 5 stars too so I don't think that 100$ contract will weigh a lot. I shouldn't even feel it.
You will. A $75 contract among contracts with thousands of dollars on them dropped me a point even after the update. Then, the $220 dropped me another point. There is a stark contrast between my contracts that are rated well and the ones that are holding me down. We're talking numerous $3000 contracts and even just one $75 where I would guess I was rated 8-9 held me at 99%.

it's surprising: it makes no sense.

petra_r · ‎03-22-2020

Jennifer M wrote:
We're talking numerous $3000 contracts and even just one $75 where I would guess I was rated 8-9 held me at 99%.

Remember that all contracts over $ 1000 weigh the same...

In my experience, a negative contract of whatever size needs to fall out of the calculation window to get back to 100% - it's maths...

Also, it's the calculation window. Depending on how many completed contracts are in your calculation window, a small contract ONLY taking you down one percentage point, means it is quite drastically weighed, unless you have 100 contracts in your calculation window?

lysis10 · ‎03-22-2020

Petra R wrote:
Jennifer M wrote:
We're talking numerous $3000 contracts and even just one $75 where I would guess I was rated 8-9 held me at 99%.
Remember that all contracts over $ 1000 weigh the same...

In my experience, a negative contract of whatever size needs to fall out of the calculation window to get back to 100% - it's maths...

Also, it's the calculation window. Depending on how many completed contracts are in your calculation window, a small contract ONLY taking you down one percentage point, means it is quite drastically weighed, unless you have 100 contracts in your calculation window?

Yes, I know about this math thing you mention. They round up, not down so there is that too. I don't think it's weighted all that much.

ravi_iitian · ‎03-22-2020

Jennifer M wrote:
Yes, I know about this math thing you mention. They round up, not down so there is that too.

Are you sure it isn't the other way round?

"Certa bonum certamen"

lysis10 · ‎03-22-2020

Ravindra B wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

Yes, I know about this math thing you mention. They round up, not down so there is that too.

Are you sure it isn't the other way round?

Yeah, I'm positive. You can see an example in my profile.**Edited for Community Guidelines**

They also had a bug and someone posted on here that they got an email that said "You're almost top rated" but her profile showed 90% and top rated. Obviously, something on the backend wasn't rounding but it was on the front end.

ravi_iitian · ‎03-22-2020

Jennifer M wrote:
Ravindra B wrote:
Jennifer M wrote:
Yes, I know about this math thing you mention. They round up, not down so there is that too.

Are you sure it isn't the other way round?

Yeah, I'm positive. You can see an example in my profile. Right-click and do "View Source." Do a search for "nSS100BwScor". It shows for me (.98) and the cloud agencies I'm a part of. Look at the one for the iWorkGlobal cloud. The score (JSS) is 0.996625 but it shows at 100%.

They also had a bug and someone posted on here that they got an email that said "You're almost top rated" but her profile showed 90% and top rated. Obviously, something on the backend wasn't rounding but it was on the front end.

Okay, but then it is possible to have a 100% JSS even with an imperfect feedback.

"Certa bonum certamen"

lysis10 · ‎03-22-2020

Ravindra B wrote:
Okay, but then it is possible to have a 100% JSS even with an imperfect feedback.

Yep, that's kinda what I was getting at. I know exactly what contract hit me. It's a $75 contract and it was only one point prior to the update. My guess is that she probably rated me a 9 since it was only a 1 point drop. I fully expected it to go up after the change due to all the higher dollar contracts. That didn't happen. Then I got hit again with a $220 for another point. So, I think the weighted values are very minor.

I got bigger problems than a 98% so I don't care so much, but I like to observe these things so I understand them as much as I can. And they do round up, so that is something to take into consideration.

ravi_iitian · ‎03-22-2020

Petra R wrote:
Jennifer M wrote:
We're talking numerous $3000 contracts and even just one $75 where I would guess I was rated 8-9 held me at 99%.
Remember that all contracts over $ 1000 weigh the same...

So, if I have three jobs with earnings of $1000, $5000, and $10,000, they all weigh the same?

"Certa bonum certamen"

petra_r · ‎03-22-2020

Ravindra B wrote:
Petra R wrote:
Jennifer M wrote:
We're talking numerous $3000 contracts and even just one $75 where I would guess I was rated 8-9 held me at 99%.
Remember that all contracts over $ 1000 weigh the same...

So, if I have three jobs with earnings of $1000, $5000, and $10,000, they all weigh the same?

yes

researchediting · ‎03-22-2020

Petra R wrote:
Jennifer M wrote:
We're talking numerous $3000 contracts and even just one $75 where I would guess I was rated 8-9 held me at 99%.
Remember that all contracts over $ 1000 weigh the same...

In my experience, a negative contract of whatever size needs to fall out of the calculation window to get back to 100% - it's maths...

Also, it's the calculation window. Depending on how many completed contracts are in your calculation window, a small contract ONLY taking you down one percentage point, means it is quite drastically weighed, unless you have 100 contracts in your calculation window?

It's maths, but there's not the slightest indication that it's percentages, except that Upwork (mis?)labels it as such. Based, for example, on Jennifer's calculations and my recent similar experience, JSS is a score on a hundred-point scale, which is quite different from a percentage.