Your payment can be reversed even after project is closed by 5 star feedback

[kmunjal]

Hi All BEWARE!! oDesk will reverse the payment even if the project is successfully completed with 5 star feedback. My client sent me BONUS payment. But after that when she doesn't need that specific work, that I already started working on it contacted oDesk and oDesk reversed the payment without my consent. And when I asked oDesk about this, they said fixed price are not guaranteed , in Fixed price contracts payments can be reversed in even closed project with 5 star feedback. Now I am afraid I have completed 400 jobs here and 3400 hours logged, close to 350 jobs are fixed now if every client will go to oDesk and ask to reverse payment they will reverse it by saying fixed prices payments are not guaranteed?. I am here a reputed contractor by which oDesk earned thousands of dollars, they are doing this to me, Now please think what they will do to the newbie. Thanks

[bronnyslav]

AFAIK client can reverse only pending payments, during 7 days after amount was deducted. Payments already received by contractor cannot be reversed, unless client has some very solid proof of contractor's fraudulent activity. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[kmunjal]

Yes, thats what also i know till that incident happen to me.But oDesk informed me that they can reverse any fixed payment if client come and ask for it.

[zudwa_design]

I got into the similar situation. And this is absolutely ridiculous! So poor freelancers can be robbed at any time without any protection.

Upwork is a terrible praltform. I miss Elance..(

[kochubei_valeria]

Hi Angelina,

It looks like the payment was reversed because the hours you billed weren't under Upwork hourly protection. In the future, please make sure you log time using the Team App, add descriptive memos and meet other requirements for the payment protection outlined here in order to make sure you get paid.

[ravi_iitian]

@Valeria

Are we protected in the case of Fixed-Price jobs?

Or are we vulnerable if there is a chargeback?

[j_sokolova]

So there is no protection for freelancers? Did i understand correct? Hmmm... Should i worry about all my ended contracts?

[liablanchard]

Hello friends:

This is just a friendly suggestion to check the dates of previous posts, particularly if the information is upsetting. oDesk doesn't even exist anymore; it's Upwork now, and many things have changed and continue to change.

I'm not commenting specifically on this subject -- you'll have to do that research yourself. I'm simply trying to alleviate anxiety and negative rumors, all based on potentially outdated information.

🙂

[mtngigi]

Yes, as Lia stated ... there's not much point in responding to a post that was started in 2014.

[maverickuk]

Although the post is old and no longer really has a purpose, it's still true that clients can reverse ANY payment from Upwork and Upwork will simply reverse it and tell the freelancer that fixed-price isn't guaranteed. See, the issue is, if a client gives you 5* feedback and good written feedback, I think Upwork should be the ones who are left out of pocket because of a clients dishonesty and greed, not the freelancer. We're paying good moeny to use their platform and soon paying double, it's about time we got a few more safeguards in accordance with what we're paying for their services.

[mtngigi]

Agreed - but I don't see that happening any time soon. We're all just a bunch of Rodney Dangerfields here.

[impactwebdesign]

Yes, your payment can be reversed at any time. It happened to me recently. I accepted a $550 payment (50% of the job) up front, worked 16 hours on the job making up mockups for a new site, sent them to the client, then Upwork notified me that the client gave Upwork a chargeback on their credit card so Upwork billed me. They never questioned me about the project, the client never contacted Upwork, he just charged it back on his card. He later used some of my graphics on the site he had built by someone else. There was no dispute process or anything. Upwork said since there was a chargeback there was nothing they could do. Needless to say I have been looking elsewhere for freelance clients after finding out how easliy this can happen, only taking Upwork jobs from clients I have worked for in the past and trust and after they pass the 2 year mark I will deal with them directly.

[mtngigi]

Dan.

I'm sorry that happened to you. But if the client didn't pay for your graphics, you should go after him for copyright infringement. The work belongs to you until your clients pays for it.

[kat303]

---

@Dan S wrote:

. He later used some of my graphics on the site he had built by someone else. There was no dispute process or anything.

---

 Dan, If  you know where your graphics were used, and you were not paid for your work, the copyrights belong to you until you are paid. Message the client and let them know that since you weren't paid for the work they got, you still own the copyrights to it. And let them know that unless you are paid within XXX days, you will contact the site's host provider with a DMCA notice and have those graphics and any other work you did, taken down.

And by all means, follow through with that if the client doesn't respond or doesn't pay you.

By not doing anything, it teaches and reinforces the concept that this client can get away with things like that. If they got away with it once, you can be sure they will try it again. Maybe not the same way, but scammers will find other ways when they know nothing will be done.

[lauraivie]

Good advice, Kathy T!

I would hope that an Upwork Community Member would comment on this and set some things straight. Is this truly possible? If so, then it means no protection for freelancers, which is a shame. This is especially shameful considering the fee hikes that are about to go into place. 

[j_sokolova]

It is a little strange that all moderators from Community keep silent and don't comment this situation. 

[petra_r]

It is not just on Upwork.

If a non-Upwork client pays you by credit card or PayPal and files a chargeback the same thing happens -

If it is hourly you ARE protected provided your work diary for the recharged period is compliant with the terms of the guarantee. In that case Upwork swallows the loss.

Fixed rate only if Upwork can defend the chargeback. They have a whole department that tries to do that, and also go after clients with debt collection agencies.

Unfortunately that doesn't always work.

[ravi_iitian]

Does the ToS clearly state that in the case of a chargeback the provider/contractor will bear the loss?

[colettelewis]

Ravindra has asked two pertinent questions. I would like to know the answer to them too.

The terms of service seem to have been amalgamated into a rather muddled, rather vague set of rules, that gloss over what is what for freelancers, and what is what for clients.

All those huge agressive headings - I can really understand why newcomers both client and freelancer do not read them.

[ravi_iitian]

"Ravindra has asked two pertinent questions. I would like to know the answer to them too."

We have the answers (read between the lines).

Perhaps this should be made a sticky so providers are at least aware of the risk.

[justyourtype]

Petra wrote: If a non-Upwork client pays you by credit card or PayPal and files a chargeback the same thing happens.

This happened to me with PayPal a few years back.

Client approved and accepted work and paid me through paypal – $450.

Months later, the client filed a chargeback and PayPal gave him the money back and charged it back to me!

I cooperated with all inquiries from Paypal and even filed a police report for internet fraud/trying to defraud a credit card company but Paypal said there was nothing they could do.

I closed my Paypal account and years later, they still have the negative balance there if I try to re-open a Paypal account.

[colettelewis]

---

@Sue B wrote:

Petra wrote: If a non-Upwork client pays you by credit card or PayPal and files a chargeback the same thing happens.

This happened to me with PayPal. 

Client approved and accepted work and paid me through paypal – $450.

Months later, the client filed a chargeback and PayPal gave him the money back and charged it back to me!

I co-operated with all inquiries from Paypal and even filed a police report for internet fraud/trying to defraud a credit card company but Paypal said there was nothing they could do.

I closed my Paypal account and years later, they still have the negative balancet here if I try to re-open a Paypal account.

---

Bad story. Are there any payment methods where chargeback is not possible?

[lysis10]

PayPal is terrible with chragebacks. Very buyer friendly. And they will hold your money and won't give it back. I use it but never with more than $50.

[freddiedfre]

Just experienced this today(21/03/2019). Funny thing about my situation is that my contract was a hourly one. I logged time properly with the upwork time app. The client's payment method was verified too. The logged hours went in to the review period,  then before review period the client ended the contract. All the amount in review was reversed to the client without any notification to me. No dispute was initiated at any point. I have reached out to support but am yet to get a feedback.

[lysis10]

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Fredrick M wrote:

Just experienced this today(21/03/2019). Funny thing about my situation is that my contract was a hourly one. I logged time properly with the upwork time app. The client's payment method was verified too. The logged hours went in to the review period,  then before review period the client ended the contract. All the amount in review was reversed to the client without any notification to me. No dispute was initiated at any point. I have reached out to support but am yet to get a feedback.

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Money was reversed today? Or you mean he closed the contract today?

[freddiedfre]

The contract was closed two days ago, but I noticed the amount that is
supposed to be in review missing today.

[lysis10]

---

Fredrick M wrote:
The contract was closed two days ago, but I noticed the amount that is
supposed to be in review missing today.

---

Does a refund show in your transaction report?

[freddiedfre]

Just checked that and it indicates a reversal happened yesterday

[lysis10]

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Fredrick M wrote:

Just checked that and it indicates a reversal happened yesterday

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Wow and you didn't use manual time? Some type of fraud I would think then and I'm surprised you didn't get an email. When you give a refund (even when reversed due to manual time), you get an email.

[dzadza]

ok - this may sound crazy but....

is this site falling apart?

[freddiedfre]

Took me by surprise too. Received no notification at all. The time was
properly logged with the desktop app. I also delivered the clients task.
Support have informed me that they are looking into it, so am waiting for
feedback on what they find out.

[bstojadinovic]

Hi Fredrick,

I`m sorry to hear about your experience. I see that you have already communicated with our support team via this support ticket. Please allow time for our team to carefully investigate all facts and once they do they will reach out to you with more details. Thank you for patience!

[freddiedfre]

Thanks, will be patient.

[freddiedfre]

Hi, been almost 2 days now and I still have no updates on your findings.

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Fredrick,

I`ve escalated your concern to the team that is handling your case and one of our team members will assist you on your ticket as soon as possible. Thank you.

[freddiedfre]

Just got feedback and its not helpful at all. I am being told to request the client to make payment. Unfortunately am no longer in talks with the client, and he already expressed intention of not holding up his end by reversing the payment.

At this point I'm left to wonder what the point of hourly protection is when a client can reverse payments whenever they feel like and freelancer gets no notification at all.

[petra_r]

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Fredrick M wrote:

At this point I'm left to wonder what the point of hourly protection is when a client can reverse payments whenever they feel like and freelancer gets no notification at all.

---

Generally you are protected if your logged hours fully comply with the terms of the protection. That means tracked time, AND meaningful memos, AND adequate activity levels AND only work related screenshots.

[freddiedfre]

All that is in place. At start of contract the client's payment method was verified, it still was last i checked a day ago. I logged time properly using the desktop app, memo's were descriptive of what I was working on. I finished the task on time and delivered. I noticed funds that were supposed to be in review were missing and opened a ticket. Its taken days and this is the response I received today.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[lysis10]

That message makes it sound like an escrow job. This was hourly and not something like escrow and you used tracker?

[freddiedfre]

It was an hourly job..