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gurjeetkalsi
Community Member

deadline is tom, but client not responding.

A client approached for a close deadline project, the deadline was not mentioned earlier in the job. but anyways we took it and start working on it, but since this morning the client is not giving feedback nor replying and the deadline is for Friday. I have requested him a day before to extend the deadline since creative thing does require time but the reply I got was a bit rude, so we ignore to reply him on that but started working on the new concepts.

till now I have given ample options and he was not sure of anything.. since today morning I supplied the new concepts but no reply from the client.

And I am afraid of getting a dent on my JSS if the client never comes back to this portal.
What best I can do to avoid hitting my JSS?

Kindly guide!

28 REPLIES 28
prestonhunter
Community Member

You are the freelancer. This is not your project. So if there are any deadlines, they are the client's deadlines.

 

Clients are not obligated to reply to freelancers.

 

If you have an hourly contract, you will be paid for all of your time. It does not matter if the client responds to you.

 

If you have a fixed-price contract, then you submit your work. It does not matter if the client replies or does anything. If the client does nothing, you get paid for your work automatically.

 

If the deadline is Friday, and if you need the client to tell you red or blue by Friday... but she doesn't... then that is her responsibility. The client is intelligent. She knows that.

 

If a deadline is truly important, then the client is checking on things regularly to make sure everything is done by the deadline... just as you would do if you were the client.

 

re: "And I am afraid of getting a dent on my JSS if the client never comes back to this portal."

 

Submit your work when it is done.

If the client never comes back to the portal, the money will be released to you automatically. After that, you will close the contract. Your JSS will be fine.


re: "What best I can do to avoid hitting my JSS?"

 

Just do your best for the client, but don't try to impose your schedule on the client. If she does not want to respond, then don't pester her.

 

If you ask her red or blue and she doesn't respond, then go with blue and submit the work. Then you get paid and close the contract.


Preston H wrote:

her... she...


 

Why do you insist on calling a male client "her" and "she?"

Thanks, Preston,

your valuable inputs and replies really released my tension about JSS.

 

Grateful to you. 🙂

the client is 'male' just for information 🙂

I have supplied 19 different options (almost 10 more, after he replied this late evening), based on his inputs. He is rejecting every time with words like 'too simple' or 'not unique'. not ready to come on Upwork call or anything for deeper understanding, neither providing mood board. Not a single element he found that It can be taken as the first benchmark and can be taken further for refinement. the project is fixed cost and I have spent almost 10x of my time as per my hourly rate, and I am still ready to work but I can't read minds of clients... by saying that 'not unique' is not the solution... design is a subjective thing and everyone has their own visualization with each word.

How to deal with unreasonable clients in such situations? My concern is not about money but JSS.

 

 

This is what I would do:

 

Tell the client:

"Gene:

Thank you for your notes. At this time I have completed the original agreed-upon task. I would be happy to continue working on the project using an hourly contract or a new fixed-price contract. But first I would need you to close the current contract."

 

I do not let clients abuse my time like this. Clients should respect fixed-price contracts and use them as intended. Clients should not treat them as permission to force freelancers into indentured servitude.

 

If a client goes off the rails like this with a fixed-price contract, then I give them the opportunity to close the contract (which means releasing the escrow money to me) and start an hourly contract with me.

 

If the client doesn't do so, then I will close the contract myself and keep the work for myself.

 

This is not a "negotiation."

 

The client may close the contract and release payment to me. Or not. If the client does not do so, then the client loses the most valuable element in this entire arrangement: access to my services.

 

When a client abuses a fixed-price contract situation like this, the person that is harmed most is the client. Nobody's project benefits by having people work on it who resent being there.

 

As a freelancer, if you sincerely want to help the client, you need to help him use the Upwork system properly.

thanks for the guidance 🙂 .. and I am grateful to you and many others who are guiding freelancers like me by investing your valuable time on upwork.

Thanks Again.
Gurjeet

after that request for a new hourly contract.
The client ended the contract without communication and asking for a 100% refund.

If I won't earn a single $ at least my JSS will go down, how can I avoid this...

we all really work hard to maintain our JSS, but just because of one unreasonable client, all goes in vain.

Can I approach to Upwork team for this?


Gurjeet S wrote:

after that request for a new hourly contract.
The client ended the contract without communication and asking for a 100% refund.Can I approach to Upwork team for this?


No, you can't and it is unfortunate that you listened to such profile-damaging advice.

 

If the work was done, deny the refund request and negotiate with the client. The damage to your JSS is already done, it was done when the client left feedback (assuming that the feedback wasn't great.)

why can't freelancers flag such clients' profiles and those profiles must be banned forever so that others won't get such unreasonable clients.

I sincerely request to Upwork team that, JSS must not hit just because of one clients' feedback that too when he is asking a refund after using services. this protocol needs some amendments I believe.

re: "why can't freelancers flag such clients' profiles and those profiles must be banned forever so that others won't get such unreasonable clients."

 

You have some good ideas... MANY freelancers have asked that Upwork post information about how many times a client has received refunds or asked for refunds... It WOULD be useful information to freelancers!

 

re: "I sincerely request to Upwork team that, JSS must not hit just because of one clients' feedback that too when he is asking a refund after using services. this protocol needs some amendments I believe."

 

Technically... Upwork DOES STATE that when clients show a pattern of leaving negative feedback, their feedback will be excluded from JSS calculations. But Upwork does not reveal details about this.

re "MANY freelancers have asked that Upwork post information about how many times a client has received refunds or asked for refunds... It WOULD be useful information to freelancers!"

yes, that would be great and indeed this will know many other clients that they can't get away just like that. Also if we can have some algorithms for new/fresh clients with no contract history, their negative feedback must not impact equivalent to old clients with at least more than 5 or 10 contracts.

A client with zero contract history should be less dangerous with his feedback... his impact of feedback must be done on the basis of his experience/history on Upwork.

To be honest, new clients just need proper handling and managing and a bit more hand-holding.

 

Your mistake was that you accepted a contract before getting all the info you needed to avoid having to create 19 designs with no proper idea what the client wants.

 

 Had you pushed for those details BEFORE accepting the contract, you'd have found out that the client has no idea and is prone to irrational behaviour. Then you could have simply wished him the best of luck and declined the offer.


Your success on Upwork, your JSS and your sanity are secured more by the contracts and clients you decline than those you actually accept.

re "Had you pushed for those details BEFORE accepting the contract, you'd have found out that the client has no idea and is prone to irrational behavior. Then you could have simply wished him the best of luck and declined the offer."

yes that was my mistake, I should have asked him details before that...now even when I read the 'job posting' it has only two lines

("Preferred Unique Designs. 2 color preference is a must.
")

nothing else, and now this will be a lesson learned for me...

but my JSS... 😞


Gurjeet S wrote:


nothing else, and now this will be a lesson learned for me...

but my JSS... 😞


Well, that ship has sailed. The client left their feedback, the impact on your JSS is already done, you'll see it on Sunday.

 

That said, you do lots of contracts, so even if you WERE to dip below 90%, which is by no means certain that you will, you'll soon build it up again. You need to learn to vet your clients and jobs more carefully.

 

Otherwise this will happen again.

Hey Petra,

 

THIS HAPPENED AFTER FIlLING A DISPUTE:

the client came back on chat and now saying sorry for ending the contract and asking me not to go for dispute further... he said he will also reverse his feedback... will that be any help for my JSS?

what should I do here?

THIS HAPPENED AFTER FIlLING A DISPUTE:

the client came back on chat and now saying sorry for ending the contract and asking me not to go for dispute further... he said he will also reverse his feedback... will that be any help for my JSS ? 

what should I do here?


Gurjeet S wrote:


I sincerely request to Upwork team that, JSS must not hit just because of one clients' feedback that too when he is asking a refund after using services. 


Look at it sensibly and unemotionally:

 

Here is how Upwork define the JSS:

 

great client experience.png

 

Would you say the contract resulted in a "great client experience?"


The client closed the contract when you demanded to change the previously agreed contract terms. Most clients would react negatively to that. You could have talked the client down from that situation before demanding an hourly contract frrom an already upset client. 

 

When I read that I expected the client to end the contract and the whole thing to end badly. This was entirely preventable and absolutely as expected.

 

offering a new contract could be my mistake,

but I have supplied ample options ( 19 to be precise, with no mood-board given) that too in just two days on his demand and if still, he is not able to get a single element that we can use to move further, I believe he may have less idea about working in the creative domain, and hence I may not be able to satisfy him ever.

I asked him to come to upwork audio call, or share something that I can approach you for detail discussion, and he did not, never.

all of my clients, when I asked them to have call for detailed understanding, they all reply with yes, sometimes on skype or sometimes on WhatsApp... that is kinds check also that client is serious about working with us.

and at last, I can only say, that we cannot please all clients, sometimes we get unresponsive clients in real life also and if something does not work, we refund the money.. but that is a very very rare case..

I sincerely want, that JSS needs some amendments, it should hit if the feedback is negative but at the same time clinets' history and freelancers' history both should be taken care before JJS hitting the profile


Gurjeet S wrote:


but I have supplied ample options ( 19 to be precise, with no mood-board given) that too in just two days on his demand and if still, he is not able to get a single element that we can use to move further, I believe he may have less idea about working in the creative domain, and hence I may not be able to satisfy him ever.


Indeed. This is why you need to sniff out such clients BEFORE you accept their contract...

 

I can only say, that we cannot please all clients, sometimes we get unresponsive clients in real life also and if something does not work, we refund the money.

Indeed, which is why the expectation to always have a 100% JSS is unrealistic.


If there were any more mitigating factors everyone would have a 100% or close to 100% JSS and it would become as pointless as the star system.

the client is ready to release payment and rehire me again after I filed a dispute.

will that affect my JSS negative or positive?

and how to proceed further now?


Gurjeet S wrote:

the client is ready to release payment


The client is an idiot.

 

The private feedback the client left when closing the contract can not be changed, but after paying, the client can leave positive public feedback.

 

The client can "accept" the dispute. That will get you paid. (Unless the client has already rejected it...)

 


Gurjeet S wrote:

the client is ready to rehire me?


I hope you are not considering to let that client have another chance to treat you badly?

Send the client the link to this article, and tell him to click on "accept dispute"

 

responddispute3

now i sincerely feel he is one **Edited for Community Guidelines**.

He rehired me, just to add thin line in already shared design... I did nothing but added a thin line, and he accepted by saying " this is I wanted", paid me a second contract with a bonus and said he will work again with me. the new contract started and ended in just 30 mins... all done

I really don't understand why this all happened for that " thin line", which if he had communicated earlier and all this not happened.

will his new contract positive feedback helps in increasing my JSS as compare to previous feedback... as both feedbacks are in within 24 hours.


Gurjeet S wrote:


will his new contract positive feedback helps in increasing my JSS as compare to previous feedback... as both feedbacks are in within 24 hours.


It won't "undo" the damage done by the first one. That is not how percentages work. It will, however, add a positive outcome.

 

Did you also get paid for the first contract?

thanks for the clarity on JSS thing. grateful to you and all others who take time to guide people like us.

yes got payment for 1st, as well as for 2nd with bonus, and assurance of more work by next week.
He apologizes and said, he has some anger management issues and loses control of small things.

anyways... I guess this is what planned almighty, a lesson to learn for me is, get as many details from the client in the beginning, a lesson for him that he may handle future situations with calmness.

Thanks, Petra & Preston, for guiding me 🙂

PS: I sincerely feel that people like you (community gurus) guiding many of us, they must get some $$$ from Upwork as they are taking their personal time to guide others and is part of their system that helps to function smoothly.


Gurjeet S wrote:


PS: I sincerely feel that people like you (community gurus) guiding many of us, they must get some $$$ from Upwork as they are taking their personal time to guide others and is part of their system that helps to function smoothly.


No, no $$$, we do it for fun, but I do have a very pretty mug 🙂

 

IMG_0617.JPG

 

 

re: "The client ended the contract without communication and asking for a 100% refund."

This means that the client is trying to steal from you.

The client does not respect the time that you spent working on the project. He wants to steal your time and steal the money that was put into escrow in order to pay you.

 

Keep in mind that the client's action created a REQUEST for a refund.

 

You MAY agree to that request. If you agree to that request, then all of the money goes back to the client, and your JSS will be negatively impacted due to having a zero-pay contract.

 

You may also choose to NOT refund the money. If you choose to NOT refund the money, then a dispute is created. A dispute means that Upwork will try to encourage you and the client to come to an agreement. The client can not force you to return the escrow money.

 

re: "Can I approach to Upwork team for this?"

If you don't agree to the refund request, then Upwork will be part of this, because an Upwork employee will be put in charge of the dispute mediation process.

 

The dispute process IS an opportunity to negotiate with the client, as Petra pointed out. It may be possible to offer (for example) to return 25% of the money to the client, or half.

Because the money is in a true escrow account, Upwork can't "decide" who gets the money. The client can't decide without your agreement, and you can't decide without the client's agreement. If you get paid ANYTHING... even if it just one dollar... then there will be no negative impact from having a zero-pay contract. But if the client left negative feedback, that would have negative impact on JSS. Fortunately for you, you already have a long history of excellent feedback.

sincerely I am not worried about money, I can refund 100%, but for me, my track record will get a dent, which is 100% till now.

I am at 95% with JSS and don't know how much impact of this one clients' feedback will dent my profile (who is new to Upwork, it was his first contract), if it goes beyond 90% then that will be a serious problem for me. I sincerely want the Upwork team to make new protocols at least on JSS thing. I know I am also new to Upwork and completed just a handful of projects.. but I make sure that every client gets a little extra than what they pay me. but if such incidents will keep happening that is not good for the sincere people who really admire working on online platforms.

I request the Upwork team also to please make some amendments in JSS please, otherwise clients will have the upper hand and they lose nothing (especially new clients) but we freelancers are sitting here with the aim for long term associations and denting our profile with one such incident really break our hearts.

THIS HAPPENED AFTER FIlLING A DISPUTE:

the client came back on chat and now saying sorry for ending the contract and asking me not to go for dispute further... he said he will also reverse his feedback... will that be any help for my JSS?

what should I do here?

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