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motyduke
Member

discount test article

I want to share what i saw today and maybe Upwork can do something against that

 

I saw a job offer for writing content as article on jewelry. I saw that the budget set was 5 dollars for an article of between 1000 and 2000 words. I really know that is not the good price but i tried to make a proposal at my price, really over the budget.

 

The customer replied me that the budget was for a test article only. And of course, after, if they are happy they will give me articles at my price.

 

Of course i am not a kid and i refused . I can make a little discount on a test but in this case it was really too big difference.

 

BUT i looked the past job of this customer and i saw only job realised at a fixed price of 5 dollars.

 

So this customer ask for a huge discount price , promising another job behind......but no jobs of more of 5 dollars appeared....in many months!

 

I know that he doesnt ask for free test (forbidden) and he set the budget and if people dont want to work at this price they can say no.

 

But i really think he lies about te promise and the articles are not test : they are used as content for his website.

 

I ask what is the opinion of Upwork about that. I see many budget very low now ( yesterday an ebook of 30000 words for 8 dollars !)

Upwork has a policy to filter this and especially the scam i described.? I hope they understand that these kind of jobs KILL the market, KILL the revenue of freelancers and KILL the revenue of Upwork. 

 

Are the job offers reviewed to avoid this kind of attitude ? I think the freelancers who worked fo 5 dollars as a test are worry to give a bad review to the customer : of course they think "if i give a bad review, the customer will not give me the other articles promised".

 

I really want to have the opinion of other freelancers ( and please dont answer me if they think it is too low, they dont have to get the job....it is not really the point )and of Upwork of course

24 REPLIES 24
boshoffirene
Member

What these guys do is hire a few people on a 'test' job...let's say he hires 10 people, that costs him $50 in total...BUT....lets say he gets FIVE really good articles...then he has saved himself a ton of money because he did not hire anyone at their actual worth.


@Irene B wrote:

What these guys do is hire a few people on a 'test' job...let's say he hires 10 people, that costs him $50 in total...BUT....lets say he gets FIVE really good articles...then he has saved himself a ton of money because he did not hire anyone at their actual worth.


Ok irene you are right ! But you think from your honest and clever point of view. These kind of people dont think like this !  

lysis10
Member

Jewelry is one of those spam markets that just wants junk content. He doesn't care about quality.

 

It helps to understand the spammers sometimes to target the right customers I think.

vladag
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Olivier,

 

I understand your perspective. I don't have an insight into the client's details, but as long as they are paying the rate agreed with the freelancer, for the agreed scope, the job is in line with our ToS.

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Thanks Vladimir for your answer but i think it is a big problem for you and us. It is a little bit easy to say that it is in line with your ToS. But maybe the ToS need to be revised to avoid that. If all the customers do same thing : " oh ,y budget is VERY low but is is for test and you will have further jobs later" what will happen to your market ??

Of course all dont do that . But be aware that so many people learn very quick the easiest way to do to save money.

 

And i see more and more offers with ridiculous budget . I just charged my page of "my job feed".  On 12 fixed price , 7 are set on 5 dollars budget ! You know why.

 

We pay for a service with fees . We must have fair job offers. I really think it is your duty to regulate these. In the case i described , i even cannot falg the job as there is no category set for this kind of attitude !

kshitijshah30
Member

Hi All,

 

I have also come across one of such client in my own country. He was posting jobs of accounting and finance. though have not applied for his job being too discounted price but just referred his previous jobs he has got many work done in just $1. I don't understand who will work for him for $1 and again major jobs were tagged as Test jobs. Really, Upwork should filter such clients and come out with some mechanism.

 

Regards,

K**bleep**ij S.

Yes shah you are absolutely right . Upwork must filter this ? It is really easy to answer "fo us it is in line". No really view in perspective, no think about all these freelancers who have done these kind of jobs ???

Hi Olivier,

 

Just to put more light on, this majority of all the freelancer who completed Job was new freelancers, So contractor might have given commitment for further job and good rating and then they might have completed Job in such low rate with good hope.

 

Earlier too, I have suggested to fix minimum price for certain Jobs, But It's not adapted by Upwork.

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

K Shah

Anonymous User
Not applicable
This widget could not be displayed.

Bad enough that such job offers and "clients" have to be discussed here, because they are allowed on Upwork. Freelancers should abstain from working for such persons who cannot be regarded as somebody who are doing a honest and serious business.

Well... Although offering "discount" rates is better than tricking contractors into working for free, I still think it is unprofessional.

 

As a contractor, I don't offer "discount time." My time is my time, whether or not a client is "testing" me out or not.

 

Why should I care if the job is a "test" job or not? I could spend that time working at my full rate for someone else.

 

As a client, I hire people at their regular rate. If it is a small "test" job, or if I am hiring many people for the same job to see who is the best, I hire them all at their regular rates, not at a "discount" rate.

versailles
Member


@Olivier P wrote:

 

Upwork has a policy to filter this and especially the scam i described.? I hope they understand that these kind of jobs KILL the market, KILL the revenue of freelancers and KILL the revenue of Upwork. 

 

 


They don't kill the market. There are (roughly) two markets over here: the professional-grade market and the cheapos market.

 

I don't know what's going on in Cheapoville because I don't live there. Similarly to many successful freelancers, I don't deal with those people, so I don't give a rat's **Edited for Community Guidelines** about how cheap they are. If they find providers that are happy to work for peanuts, I'm fine with it. I easily command good rates, so why would I care?

 

I don't compete in this market and no one with a grain of self-respect should.

 

Upwork is a free marketplace, it's not the company's role to regulate the business other than ensuring fair and honest practices and mutual satisfaction between clients and providers.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless


@Rene K wrote:

@Olivier P wrote:

 

Upwork has a policy to filter this and especially the scam i described.? I hope they understand that these kind of jobs KILL the market, KILL the revenue of freelancers and KILL the revenue of Upwork. 

 

 


They don't kill the market. There are (roughly) two markets over here: the professional-grade market and the cheapos market.

 

I don't know what's going on in Cheapoville because I don't live there. Similarly to many successful freelancers, I don't deal with those people, so I don't give a rat's **Edited for Community Guidelines** about how cheap they are. If they find providers that are happy to work for peanuts, I'm fine with it. I easily command good rates, so why would I care?

 

I don't compete in this market and no one with a grain of self-respect should.

 

Upwork is a free marketplace, it's not the company's role to regulate the business other than ensuring fair and honest practices and mutual satisfaction between clients and providers.

 

 


You answer is your thinking . I dont work in Cheapoville too but i am concerned by the way some freelancers can be scamed. It is the role of the company to regulate this and from what i see they dont do ! You think it dont kill the market ? I am not sure . One of my regular client told me last week that a friend of him found on upwork a freelancer with a rate of 50% discount . What you think my client did ? He asked the freelancer to work with him. Ok no problem for me now, i keep some works with this client but in the future ?  If you really think that many industries didnt get killed by dumping on price and with no fair rules , you need to re-read economic history maybe. If a market is not regulate by fair rules, the market go to the cheaper price, sooner or later. Of course some people get their money because of their abilities ( we all hope that we are these ones) but the median goes down.  Do you buy your airpalne ticket at high price ? No you wait maybe for discount or go with low cost companies . We all do that . I buy some cheap airpalne ticket and i cannot even undersatnd how they can do that ....and i don't really mind if the company bankrupt the next year. I am sure , here , some clients ask some freelancers to pay for work maybe if they can. But the main point of my post was about fair offer.....what Upwork do to regulate these ? We pay high fee for that. When i read that Upwork say that it in line with their ToS it is really scaring !!! It is in line to ask for a job test that will stay as a job test and without further jobs....because of course all job tests are failed ???? Good....everything goes fine ! The point is that Upwork automatically load job offers without looking them, without filtering....they even cannot detect when the client give his personnal contact in the job offer....we have to flag that....what they do ? If someone of Upwork can answer me , it would be nice !

 

I've cleaned the mess left by 3 cents per word translators enough times to know that there definitely are two completely different markets.

 

If you are losing clients on cheapos, you're on the wrong market bud. People who come here and whine about how clients are cheap are legion. Funny thing is, they even don't know that another market exists.

 

I've tried low-cost airlines. Now I fly Air France. I pay more but I don't arrive at the destination exhausted. Top tier clients want to pay more for quality. People who sweat at lower rates cannot produce quality on the long run because they have to work crazy hours to make a living.

 

I can spend more time polishing my work because I charge top Dollar compared to low-ballers. Demanding clients appreciate this and don't mind paying more for trust and quality.

 

I'm sorry but you have your market wrong. If you market yourself as a commodity, you're bound to slavery.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless


@Rene K wrote:

I've cleaned the mess left by 3 cents per word translators enough times to know that there definitely are two completely different markets.

 

If you are losing clients on cheapos, you're on the wrong market bud. People who come here and whine about how clients are cheap are legion. Funny thing is, they even don't know that another market exists.

 

I've tried low-cost airlines. Now I fly Air France. I pay more but I don't arrive at the destination exhausted. Top tier clients want to pay more for quality. People who sweat at lower rates cannot produce quality on the long run because they have to work crazy hours to make a living.

 

I can spend more time polishing my work because I charge top Dollar compared to low-ballers. Demanding clients appreciate this and don't mind paying more for trust and quality.

 

I'm sorry but you have your market wrong. If you market yourself as a commodity, you're bound to slavery.


Ok i don't even want to answer to this. It seems you cannot even understand my point of view. I never say i lose clients in cheap market. I don't see the world only from my point of view. That is the difference 


@Olivier P wrote:

You answer is your thinking . I dont work in Cheapoville too but i am concerned by the way some freelancers can be scamed. It is the role of the company to regulate this and from what i see they dont do !
Why do you see it as the role of a company whose services include marketing, coordination and payment processing to tell adult professionals what agreements they may and may not make among themselves?

 


@Tiffany S wrote:

@Olivier P wrote:

You answer is your thinking . I dont work in Cheapoville too but i am concerned by the way some freelancers can be scamed. It is the role of the company to regulate this and from what i see they dont do !
Why do you see it as the role of a company whose services include marketing, coordination and payment processing to tell adult professionals what agreements they may and may not make among themselves?

 


My point is not that the company must regulate what freelancers can accept....BUT my point is that the company MUST regulate a SCAM  ! When as i write many times , a cient ask only cheap prices for test articles and no further work ( even at 0,5 dollars today) , the clients scam people ! The cients avoid the rule of forbidden free jobs but gets something very cheap with a fake promise. Ok freelancers need to be aware and avoid that but it is the duty of Upwork to think about that and adapt their rules to avoid that ! Just this morning , with a quick search i found more of 15 job offers like this ! If they do nothing, in some months it will be 90% of job offers !


@Olivier P wrote:

@Tiffany S wrote:

@Olivier P wrote:

You answer is your thinking . I dont work in Cheapoville too but i am concerned by the way some freelancers can be scamed. It is the role of the company to regulate this and from what i see they dont do !
Why do you see it as the role of a company whose services include marketing, coordination and payment processing to tell adult professionals what agreements they may and may not make among themselves?

 


My point is not that the company must regulate what freelancers can accept....BUT my point is that the company MUST regulate a SCAM  ! When as i write many times , a cient ask only cheap prices for test articles and no further work ( even at 0,5 dollars today) , the clients scam people ! The cients avoid the rule of forbidden free jobs but gets something very cheap with a fake promise. Ok freelancers need to be aware and avoid that but it is the duty of Upwork to think about that and adapt their rules to avoid that ! Just this morning , with a quick search i found more of 15 job offers like this ! If they do nothing, in some months it will be 90% of job offers !


What would you suggest, though? That discounted test articles not be allowed? That the client be forced to hire someone after running a test (but what if they didn't find what they were looking for?) That the client be forced to give more work to everyone who completed the test article? How would you monitor this? 


@Tiffany S wrote:

@Olivier P wrote:

@Tiffany S wrote:

@Olivier P wrote:

You answer is your thinking . I dont work in Cheapoville too but i am concerned by the way some freelancers can be scamed. It is the role of the company to regulate this and from what i see they dont do !
Why do you see it as the role of a company whose services include marketing, coordination and payment processing to tell adult professionals what agreements they may and may not make among themselves?

 


My point is not that the company must regulate what freelancers can accept....BUT my point is that the company MUST regulate a SCAM  ! When as i write many times , a cient ask only cheap prices for test articles and no further work ( even at 0,5 dollars today) , the clients scam people ! The cients avoid the rule of forbidden free jobs but gets something very cheap with a fake promise. Ok freelancers need to be aware and avoid that but it is the duty of Upwork to think about that and adapt their rules to avoid that ! Just this morning , with a quick search i found more of 15 job offers like this ! If they do nothing, in some months it will be 90% of job offers !


What would you suggest, though? That discounted test articles not be allowed? That the client be forced to hire someone after running a test (but what if they didn't find what they were looking for?) That the client be forced to give more work to everyone who completed the test article? How would you monitor this? 


Of course : not forcing someone to hire after a test  ( i dont understand why you talk about that)

Of course : not forcing someone to give further work

 

BUT : make forbidden to ask someone for a test with a huge discount of 80% ! forbidden the ability to ask for a discount for a test ( why ? )

Give the possibility to flag that when it is obvious and the upwork team can look further more and choose or not to remove the job offer.

 

It si possible to let that and doing nothing as you may think but what about a client profile whe you see ONLY these kinds of job offer and you acn see only these kind of jobs done. I really think it is the job of upwork to clean that. If they  d nothng we will see more and more.  And it will not be only for the cheap jobs, be sure !

kat303
Member

IMO it doesn't matter what a client calls his job, as long as he pays for the articles then the copyrights belongs to him and he can publish those articles anywhere he wants. Promising future work is just "word of moluth" and that doesn't mean anything and is not enforceable.  And if 100 contractors want to work for that rate that's they choice. And a client can set his budget to $5 because for contractors, there is no fixed rate limit and I'm sure this client is receiving bids of $1.

 

I don't bother with jobs like that, so it doesn't bother me what they promise or what they call their jobs.

 

 

AND AGAIN

 

Yesterday i saw a job asking article for 0,50 dollars !!!!! But the budget is set for 50 , maybe for one hundred pieces....but in the job offer they write O,5/ p . I am not interested but i replied giving my price....just to know

 

The answer ?? " Oh the price we asked of 0,50 is for a test article. If we are happy with your work, you will have more at normal price "

 

 

SO, many peoples can answer me ; don't mind ....and Upwork can again answer " it is ok with our rules"....but i really feel that some client know how to avoid to pay for the right price and how to avoid to ask for free test !!!!

 

Of course , everybody can close eyes on this....but i think it kills something and i see more and more of this kind of offers

 

And again we can not flag it because no category of flags is for that

Olivier: are you saying you want to flag job postings which do NOT violate any Upwork rules, but which you personally disagree with?


@Preston H wrote:

Olivier: are you saying you want to flag job postings which do NOT violate any Upwork rules, but which you personally disagree with?


No, of course not !  I really think it is a scam and i try to think how it is possible to avoid such job offers. If nobody worry about that no problem , but i see them more and more... And maybe Upwork rules can be adpated to this new kind of scam... The point is not that i personally disagree, i thin more and more freelancers will be asked to work for this kind of cheap tests with nothng more. I saw a client who posted 14 jobs like this !!!

There's a weird form of logic that applies to the idea of doing test articles. If you do a single article as a test for a project that involves a set of related articles, the amount of time spent and work involved will usually be proportionally more.

 

Therefore, I charge MORE for a test article.  I did this with a project that was paying $60 per article (still painfully low, but very easy for me and I needed the pennies). The test article was paid at $100. 


@Kim F wrote:

There's a weird form of logic that applies to the idea of doing test articles. If you do a single article as a test for a project that involves a set of related articles, the amount of time spent and work involved will usually be proportionally more.

 

Therefore, I charge MORE for a test article.  I did this with a project that was paying $60 per article (still painfully low, but very easy for me and I needed the pennies). The test article was paid at $100. 


Thanks Kim. I understand . If i can charge more i do too. But the problem i talked about is the job offers where the client get cheap jobs for a promise of more work if the test is good. I really feel it is a scam and i  dont understand why Upwork dont try to regulate this . I saw yesterday a client who say 0,5 dollars for the test article and after i pay at a normal rate !!!!