money automatically refunded ?

akashinfotech18 · ‎08-28-2018

hello, I am new on upwork and I worked for the client for 7 hours of manual time everything went well he give 5 stars reviews and I ended the contract. I get money in pending but today I received an email of refund. I didn't even initiate it nor client

I am worried I worked hard for that 56$ (after 20% upwork commision, before it is 70$) can someone help please and check what happened with my pending money?

Thank You!

Akash

petra_r · ‎08-28-2018

@Akash P wrote:
hello, I am new on upwork and I worked for the client for 7 hours of manual time everything went well he give 5 stars reviews and I ended the contract. I get money in pending but today I received an email of refund. I didn't even initiate it nor client

The client failed to pay for your hours or the owner of the payment method filed a chargeback, and because your hours were manual time you were not protected and the money reversed.

The client can fix the problem with their payment method and pay you a bonus. Otherwise the money is gone.

akashinfotech18 · ‎08-28-2018

no, I think he paid and he didn't revert back. 😞 can any moderator or upwork staff member can help me and check what happened??

emiguelina · ‎08-28-2018

@Akash P wrote:
no, I think he paid and he didn't revert back. 😞 can any moderator or upwork staff member can help me and check what happened??

Again: the client fails to pay (whatever reason), and manual hours are not protected. He didn't need to revert anything back if his card failed.

szubkov · ‎06-02-2020

Hi Elba,

Again: the client fails to pay (whatever reason), and manual hours are not protected. He didn't need to revert anything back if his card failed.

Why does UpWork notify about the payment fail so late? Even after several days of review week? The UpWork should immediately report freelancer about the payment fails, just because the manual hours are not protected and this is the freelancer's right to stop working immediately.

petra_r · ‎08-28-2018

@Akash P wrote:
no, I think he paid

No, dear, he didn't.

kochubei_valeria · ‎08-28-2018

Hi Akash,

Petra and Elba are correct. Hours may be reversed when the client fails to pay for them and they are not covered by Upwork Hourly Protection. The team will be sending you a notification with more information about the reversal. In the future, please make sure you track your hours using Upwork Desktop App properly if you'd like to benefit from Upwork Payment Protection.

~ Valeria

akashinfotech18 · ‎08-28-2018

so what I can do now to get paid back?

petra_r · ‎08-28-2018

@Akash P wrote:
so what I can do now to get paid back?

Absolutely nothing.

In future use the tracker properly so you are covered if a client fails to pay.

And it is not about being "paid back!" - you were never paid in the first place.

IF (!!!) the client fixes their issue they can issue a bonus. But it doesn't happen that often.

szubkov · ‎06-02-2020

Petra R wrote:
@Akash P wrote:
so what I can do now to get paid back?
Absolutely nothing.
In future use the tracker properly so you are covered if a client fails to pay.

Petra, you're not covered using the time tracker at all: the proof.

bobafett999 · ‎08-28-2018

@Akash: Nothing. If the client does not pay there is nothing any one can do.

For future: Every night before you go to bed recite this 9 times.

1. I will never work unless the proejct is funded with verified payment method.

2. I will never do manual time entries. I will always use Upwork time tracker.

Even then, the buyer will threaten you with bad feedback unless you agree to refund. But in this case you will get paid. Only you can decide if you can live with bad feedback or not. You will always have an opportunity to present your side of the story.

Never give dishonest client feedback - be truthful. All the feedbacks freelancers leave are 5 star. A buyer will most likely never come back to you even if you left a glowing feedback for them.

petra_r · ‎08-28-2018

@Prashant P wrote:

Even then, the buyer will threaten you with bad feedback unless you agree to refund.

What you mean is "might" - many of us spend years on the platform doing dozens or hundreds of jobs without ever encountering such behaviour.

szubkov · ‎06-02-2020

Hi Prashant,

2. I will never do manual time entries. I will always use Upwork time tracker.

The time tracker doesn't guarantee anything too, please see this topic .

feed_my_eyes · ‎06-02-2020

Sergey Z wrote:
Hi Prashant,

2. I will never do manual time entries. I will always use Upwork time tracker.
The time tracker doesn't guarantee anything too, please see this topic .

The time tracker DOES protect you IF you use it correctly; Upwork will pay you themselves. The person at the link that you've provided had some segments refunded due to low activity levels.

szubkov · ‎06-02-2020

Christine A wrote:
Sergey Z wrote:
Hi Prashant,

2. I will never do manual time entries. I will always use Upwork time tracker.
The time tracker doesn't guarantee anything too, please see this topic .
The time tracker DOES protect you IF you use it correctly; Upwork will pay you themselves. The person at the link that you've provided had some segments refunded due to low activity levels.

Okay Christine, it protects you "if you use it correctly". It means that time tracker doesn't guarantee anything.

- Best Regards

a_lipsey · ‎06-02-2020

Sergey Z wrote:
Christine A wrote:
Sergey Z wrote:
Hi Prashant,

2. I will never do manual time entries. I will always use Upwork time tracker.
The time tracker doesn't guarantee anything too, please see this topic .
The time tracker DOES protect you IF you use it correctly; Upwork will pay you themselves. The person at the link that you've provided had some segments refunded due to low activity levels.
Okay Christine, it protects you "if you use it correctly". It means that time tracker doesn't guarantee anything.

- Best Regards

It does though, if it's used properly. What do you not understand about that? When refunds are made it's because it is not used properly. Every time someone's hours are disputed, and they have used it properly, they have been protected. Do you have a question to ask or are you here to just argue? What proof do you have that when used properly the time tracker STILL does not protect you?

When you have appropriate levels of activity and meaningful memos, work logged through the time tracker on hourly projects is protected. Manual time is not protected, ever. If there are no memos, not protected. If levels of activity are too low and suspicious, then that may also be refunded.

szubkov · ‎06-02-2020

Hi Amanda,

Do you have a question to ask or are you here to just argue?

No I don't have any questions. I'm here to argue.

What proof do you have that when used properly the time tracker STILL does not protect you?

When you have appropriate levels of activity and meaningful memos, work logged through the time tracker on hourly projects is protected. Manual time is not protected, ever. If there are no memos, not protected. If levels of activity are too low and suspicious, then that may also be refunded.

This topic is the proof I believe. Because you never know in advance that your activity level is good enough or not. How do you actually detect this?

feed_my_eyes · ‎06-02-2020

Sergey Z wrote:

This topic is the proof I believe. Because you never know in advance that your activity is good enough or not. How do you actually detect this?

As I already pointed out, your topic link doesn't prove anything except that the person who posted the topic didn't understand how hourly time tracking works, either. If you scroll down that thread to where he included screen captures from his work diary, you can clearly see that he had segments with low activity levels, for example at 2:04 and at 2:07 (they're the green bars below each time segment). That's how you "detect this".

szubkov · ‎06-02-2020

Hi Christine,

As I already pointed out, your topic link doesn't prove anything except that the person who posted the topic didn't understand how hourly time tracking works, either. If you scroll down that thread to where he included screen captures from his work diary, you can clearly see that he had segments with low activity levels, for example at 2:04 and at 2:07 (they're the green bars below each time segment). That's how you "detect this".

Okay I see it. But he has the 2:38 and 4:50 segments also. Are they considered?

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

feed_my_eyes · ‎06-02-2020

Sergey Z wrote:

Hi Christine,

As I already pointed out, your topic link doesn't prove anything except that the person who posted the topic didn't understand how hourly time tracking works, either. If you scroll down that thread to where he included screen captures from his work diary, you can clearly see that he had segments with low activity levels, for example at 2:04 and at 2:07 (they're the green bars below each time segment). That's how you "detect this".

Okay I see it. But he has the 2:38 and 4:50 segments also. Are they considered?

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

It sounds like he did get paid for the time that was properly tracked - he only had to refund the segments with low activity levels.

szubkov · ‎06-02-2020

He was paid for the time that was properly tracked - he only had to refund the segments with low activity levels (i.e. 30 minutes, not the entire payment).

Got it! Okay I see by this screen that 5/10 points of activity are not enough. 7/10 points are enough.

Would 6 activity points be enough to be protected by UpWork?
Thank you a lot for answering Christine.

feed_my_eyes · ‎06-02-2020

Sergey Z wrote:

He was paid for the time that was properly tracked - he only had to refund the segments with low activity levels (i.e. 30 minutes, not the entire payment).
Got it! Okay I see by this screen that 5/10 points of activity are not enough. 7/10 points are enough.

Would 6 activity points be enough to be protected by UpWork?
Thank you a lot for answering Christine.

I'm pretty sure that 6 and above is protected; however, I couldn't find anything that says this in writing, so perhaps somebody else will come along and confirm. But you should be aiming to work steadily while the time tracker is running anyway, and turn it off whenever you need to check email or whatever; a bunch of 6- and 7-minute segments in a row could still lead a client to think that you're slacking a bit.

There's more information about how it works here.

szubkov · ‎06-03-2020

Christine,

I'm pretty sure that 6 and above is protected; however, I couldn't find anything that says this in writing.

Yes, I couldn't find it too, but thank you for answering. To be honest, it's not so obvious thing that 5 points shouldn't be enough. We make this conclusion just from this topic, not from exact UpWork rules.

How do we consider the "suspicious screenshots" also? UpWork just makes decisions to protect freelancer or not unilaterally every time after the client's payment failed. Am I right?

- Best Regards

900fa61b · ‎03-08-2022

I lost my 800$ because of upwork.

Client hired me to send pubg mobile us 80k.

He hired me with 1200$.

I sent him us by today and Upwork refunded the money to client back.

Why 😭😭😭..

I am so upset. I'm not rich I can't bear this loss.

sofia2008 · ‎03-08-2022

Buying Pubg UC for clients is a violation of Upwork Terms of service. You lost 800$ because you are not allowed to make financial transactions outside of Upwork. This rule is in place to protect freelancers.

You are a freelancer, you are supposed to sell services, not buy stuff the client could have bought by himself at a lower price.

Your client did not hire you for 1200$. He never paid. Making 400$ for something that is not a job is not realistic.

marcobao1 · ‎03-31-2022

I will cut off my toe to swear that Upwork is still to blame for stuff like this. It could still be the client hired him for his capability, experience or expertise in doing such. There are courier services on some freelance sites for example, where people can hire someone to buy stuff not accessible to them and ship. With your kind of response it means even the freelancers who do the jobs you consider to be within TOS can be ripped off here too and it means nothing. That guy has lost money, and listen to what you are telling him.... the client never paid. How does a contract begin but no deposit goes into escrow? So a contract starting is still based on imaginary or promised payment? not actually charged and reserved deposits?

Honest truth is, not everyone will know how to use the hourly template for the first time. Me as an example, the client had to pay me through bonuses as I was so ignorant of the whole time tracking thing. Then suddenly it got refunded to the client.

I'm so disappointed with Upwork for allowing stuff like this. Freelancers can be cheated anyhow and Upwork will say they cannot do nothing. Sad

szubkov · ‎04-01-2022

Hey Marcel,

As far as I understand, it just means that clients are more important for UpWork.
It all looks like they think there are enough freelancers already.

However, my vision is that the opposite is true.

I don't feel that I can't find the job somewhere outside of UpWork.
Moreover, it seems to me that clients cannot find performers (who would manage with their tasks).

So I just made decision to find a work somewhere else, now I have great clients, and now I'm happy.

There is no sense in persuading of UpWork.