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gen4sp
Community Member

non-feedback jobs shouldn't affect job success rate

This is happening all the time, clients just don't care about the rating, it is not important for them and they not motivated to spend time. As a result, we get lower JSR for no reason, just because someone is lazy.

 

If the client not happy with results he motivated to left the rating.

So It seems not fair to include jobs without feedback to JSR. Please, include only jobs with feedback.

 

If you agree, please leave a "+1" comment.
Thank you!

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
petra_r
Community Member


Valentine L wrote:

Why think it doesn't affect? UpWork support said it does. 


Because, as long as money was paid and unless you have a huge percentage of such contracts, I know for a fact that it doesn't. Upwork Support says: 

 

Screenshot at Feb 04 11-49-42.png

 

If some rep told you otherwise, they may need further training.

 

If you want to know why your JSS isn't 100% - take a look at your "private feedback percentage" under "Clients who would recommend me" on your My Stats page.

 

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23 REPLIES 23
kirnazdogan
Community Member

I agree with you, but I think there is another problem that Upwork should solve. The feedback page is a bit complicated and time-consuming. Upwork should simplify it up to one or two clicks. The page looks like a contract text which is so scaring for both clients and freelancers.

shawnleonhardt
Community Member

I disappeared from this place for awhile and kept getting messages one day for top rated the next month off it l, back and forth. It was silly. Now since October Iโ€™ve been back making clients happy and I just got knocked off top rated status again. Which means people who want that wonโ€™t see my proposals. And I have open contracts because these people will be coming back and Iโ€™m not risking losing them. That and who cares about ratings right? We are here to earn money and get work done. But alas nothing will be done about it. I guess the best way to have a high score is to disappear.
wlyonsatl
Community Member

Valentine,

 

Upwork should apply default 5's across the board for feedback for any project where the client won't close the project and ignores the freelancer's request to leave feedback.

 

If a client can't be bothered to leave feedback, it is highly likely the freelancer did at least an "average" job for the client, and since 5's are the "average" feedback the JSS system tells freelancers they should aspire to, this is a much better solution than Upwork punishing freelancers' JSS  for clients who don't leave feedback.


Will L wrote:

 

If a client can't be bothered to leave feedback, it is highly likely the freelancer did at least an "average" job for the client, and since 5's are the "average" feedback the JSS system tells freelancers they should aspire to, this is a much better solution than Upwork punishing freelancers' JSS  for clients who don't leave feedback.


The only time I avoid leaving feedback for a freelancer is if I believe the freelancer made an honest effort but that's about the only positive thing I have to say. I won't lie in feedback (though I do understand that's the norm around here) and I won't devastate a freelancer's ratings just because they weren't a good fit for the specific thing I hired them to do, so I try to say nothing.

 

If the freelancer did a good job, I am definitely leaving feedback. If the freelancer is someone other clients should be warned about, I am definitely leaving feedback. 

petra_r
Community Member


Valentine wrote:

non-feedback jobs shouldn't affect JSS


This is a red herring because they don't affect the JSS, provided money was paid under them and you don't have an enormous percentage of such contracts. Even an enormous percentage seems to have no effect, when there are people with over 80% no-feedback contracts in every single one of their calculation windows.

 

The JSS is almost exclusively (negatively) affected by private feedback and contracts where nothing has ever been paid, whether they are closed or open for months with nothing ever paid.

 


 As a result, we get lower JSR for no reason, just because someone is lazy.


No, we do not.

 

I would suggest you take a look at your private feedback percentage (The "clients who would recommend" percentage on your "My Stats" page)

 

a_lipsey
Community Member

Petra, can you confirm something I think you've said before, which is that a client has to leave public feedback to leave private feedback? So if there is no public feedback then there was no private feedback either? They cannot only leave private feedback, correct? Or do I misremember that remark?
petra_r
Community Member


Amanda L wrote:
a client has to leave public feedback to leave private feedback? So if there is no public feedback then there was no private feedback either? They cannot only leave private feedback, correct?  Yes. On contracts with money paid it is impossible to leave private feedback without leaving public feedback. On contracts with nothing ever paid, only private feedback can be left.

That's correct. Provided money was paid, the client has to leave public feedback in order to leave private feedback. 

 

If there is no public feedback (on a contract with money paid) there can not be any private feedback. But contracts with public feedback will always have private feedback, too

 

It's both or none. (if money was paid)

 

 

 

 

conway-gregory
Community Member

+1 


Gregory C wrote:

+1 


Your JSS isn't affected by No Feedback contracts either.

 

varungs
Community Member

I agree with your premise, OP, but...

There is an easier solution and one that works better. Upwork should just make it easier for clients to access the feedback page. As a client, I've had a freelancer close the contract, and I wasn't prompted to give feedback in any way. I had to go out of my way by locating the contract and clicking on the relevant section to do so. It would be great if something like this existed instead:

 

 

This way, any client who wants to leave a feedback actually will. No looking through contracts and confusing pages. Oh, and freelancers won't have to wonder whether or not they should ask for feedback (which many people actually do...)

Upwork, please add this.

petra_r
Community Member


 As a client, I've had a freelancer close the contract, and I wasn't prompted to give feedback in any way. 


Huh?

Clicking on "View Details" directly takes you to the screen where you can click to leave feedback.

There is also a notification on your client account that prompts you to leave feedback.

 


I agree with your premise, OP,


There is nothing to agree with because contracts with no feedback, provided something was paid, don't affect the JSS (in almost all cases) anyway.

varungs
Community Member

Eh, the more prompting the better. Clearly the current system isn't enough since there are way too many clients who don't leave feedback. Also, you're forgetting that the cost of no feedback isn't just the potential JSS drop but also the opportunity cost of not having an extra 5-star review (on both JSS and future prospects).

petra_r
Community Member


Varun G wrote:

 Also, you're forgetting that the cost of no feedback isn't just the potential JSS drop 


what "potential JSS drop?"

There is no "potential JSS drop"

 

That's like being frightened of a "potenial sable tooth tiger attack"

 


Varun G wrote:

but also the opportunity cost of not having an extra 5-star review (on both JSS and future prospects).


Back in the day when I still even remotely cared about "no feedback /or idle) contracts" I'd just encourage clients to close the contract as soon as the work was done and no more was foreseen. It works most of the time if you catch the client while they are still invested and actually remember who the heck you are. I had very few "no feedback" or idlle contracts then.

 

But I stopped caring a long time ago.

varungs
Community Member

Are you saying there's no potential JSS drop? You've already stated a few times that a high percentage of "no feedback" contracts will lead to a JSS drop, which means every single contract that closes without a feedback brings the freelancer closer to a JSS drop. Sure, it's not a risk for someone like yourself, but for those of us with fewer contracts it's something we need to be mindful of. Not worried, just mindful.

gen4sp
Community Member

Why think it doesn't affect? UpWork support said it does. 

petra_r
Community Member


Valentine L wrote:

Why think it doesn't affect? UpWork support said it does. 


Because, as long as money was paid and unless you have a huge percentage of such contracts, I know for a fact that it doesn't. Upwork Support says: 

 

Screenshot at Feb 04 11-49-42.png

 

If some rep told you otherwise, they may need further training.

 

If you want to know why your JSS isn't 100% - take a look at your "private feedback percentage" under "Clients who would recommend me" on your My Stats page.

 

gen4sp
Community Member

thank you, support guy was wrong then.

grimesr
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

If you want to know why your JSS isn't 100% - take a look at your "private feedback percentage" under "Clients who would recommend me" on your My Stats page.

 


I must be blind as I don't see anything about Clients who would recommend me on my Stats page. What am I missing?

petra_r
Community Member


Robert G wrote:

Petra R wrote:

If you want to know why your JSS isn't 100% - take a look at your "private feedback percentage" under "Clients who would recommend me" on your My Stats page.

 


I must be blind as I don't see anything about Clients who would recommend me on my Stats page. What am I missing?


Go to "My Stats"

 

It's right under 12 months earnings. Bear in mind that it does not update after every job, only after every (x  - exact number unknown, thought to be 3 to 5) jobs so will likely not be up to date.

It is also over the lifetime of your profile, not the best of the 3 windows like the JSS, and only includes actual responses (only clients who actually left feedback) 

grimesr
Community Member


Petra R wrote:


Go to "My Stats"

 

It's right under 12 months earnings. Bear in mind that it does not update after every job, only after every (x  - exact number unknown, thought to be 3 to 5) jobs so will likely not be up to date.

 


Here is what I see. Am I in the wrong place?

 

Capture.PNG

petra_r
Community Member


Robert G wrote:

Petra R wrote:


Go to "My Stats"

 

It's right under 12 months earnings. Bear in mind that it does not update after every job, only after every (x  - exact number unknown, thought to be 3 to 5) jobs so will likely not be up to date.

 


Here is what I see. Am I in the wrong place?

 


Screenshot at Feb 04 18-36-13.png

grimesr
Community Member

Must be a lack of word translation. 

 

"If you want to know why your JSS isn't 100% - take a look at your "private feedback percentage" under "Clients who would recommend me" on your My Stats page"

 

Normally "under" means below, not beside. Good enough.

petra_r
Community Member


Robert G wrote:

Must be a lack of word translation. 

 

"If you want to know why your JSS isn't 100% - take a look at your "private feedback percentage" under "Clients who would recommend me" on your My Stats page"

 

Normally "under" means below, not beside. Good enough.


Seriously, now?

In all the many years I have typed it like that literally hundreds of times you are the first person who has not understood it. But please, let me apologize most profusely for my dreadful English, and I am sorry you could not find the percentage (not even while carefully disguising the number and the %) because you expected the number and the % to be underneath.

 

 I am told that "under" can just as easily be used in this context, but I will try hard to avoid such heinous mistakes in the future.

 

Edited to add: Having checked with a native English speaker who actually teaches English at university, "under" is absolutely fine. But I am still very sorry that you were unable to locate it because the word confused you so comprehensively.

 

 

 

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