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violation of 3rd party policies

Active Member
Filippo P Member Since: Sep 7, 2019
1 of 23

Hello,

I'm new to upwork and I see lots of job postings that ask to violate 3rd party policies: they ask to create whatsapp bots, linkedin scrapers, paid wordpress themes for a lesser price, university homework and so on.

Should I report them? What is your feeling towards such kind of requests? Personally I do not like to contribute to such "grey to black" side of the force and I would like my work enviroment to be clear of such rubbish.

Regards,

F

Community Guru
Mark F Member Since: Jul 10, 2018
2 of 23
I don’t consider Upwork my work environment but yes I would report some of these. I would them spend no mental energy worrying about if it was ever taken care of.
Active Member
Wilfrid F Member Since: Aug 1, 2019
3 of 23

Well, I didn't know university homework was a violation of 3rd policy. If a client is looking for a freelancer doing homework at his place, we should report it? This is very embarrassing because I hit a client who needs a summary of an academic article in french and I was very excited by the job, but now he is asking me to voluntary make errors because otherwise her foreign language teacher could suspect him not being the author of the writing. So ethically it's clear for me that I cannot say yes. But what about if I propose him to write the best summary possible -I mean obviously free of voluntary error of any kind-, as any consciencious freelancer would do, since he will be then the "legal owner" of the writing and so he will be free to modify the summary according to his "special" neeeds? Or should I ignore him and reject the job? 

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
4 of 23

Wilfrid F wrote:

Well, I didn't know university homework was a violation of 3rd policy.


Of course it is. It is academic fraud.

 


Wilfrid F wrote:

But what about if I propose him to write the best summary possible -I mean obviously free of voluntary error of any kind-, as any consciencious freelancer would do, since he will be then the "legal owner" of the writing and so he will be free to modify the summary according to his "special" neeeds? Or should I ignore him and reject the job? 


Would you like to partake in fraud? No?

Then it should be clear what you should do, shouldn't it?

Active Member
Wilfrid F Member Since: Aug 1, 2019
5 of 23

Yes, you are right. Well, I will not answer him and reject the job, but it will affect my response time rate, maybe not? Or response rate is only affected when we receive an invitation to interview? In this case, my proposal has been accepted and he sent me a message, nothing more.

 

Let me make you an additional question : from an ethical point of view, so, what should we think about ghostwriter jobs ? To my judgement, this is pretty unethical too, but ghostwriting is a common and accepted practice.

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
6 of 23

Re: "Let me make you an additional question : from an ethical point of view, so, what should we think about ghostwriter jobs ? To my judgement, this is pretty unethical too, but ghostwriting is a common and accepted practice."

 

No, you may not report ghostwriting jobs on the basis that you personally think they are unethical.

 

ALL jobs on Upwork are unethical by someone's standards.

 

Upwork DOES NOT have a prohibition against job postings that are unethical in your opinion.

 

If you personally don't like a job posting, then ignore it.

Active Member
Wilfrid F Member Since: Aug 1, 2019
7 of 23

Preston, you missread me or you didn't read the conversation from the beginning.


I am agree that making a university homework for someone else is pretty unethical. But what is the difference with a ghostwriting job ?  In both case, there is someone claiming to be the author of a writing made by someone else. That's all. My intention was not to offend ghostwriters or to report any ghostwriter job... Just trying to understand better where is the line between ethical/unethical job from a philosophical point of view and also, of course, because I don't to want to spend more connects applying a job here that could be violating Upwork rules.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
8 of 23

wrote:


I am agree that making a university homework for someone else is pretty unethical.


It is not just "unethical" - it is academic fraud.

 


Wilfrid wrote:

But what is the difference with a ghostwriting job ?

You can not seriously equate ghostwriting with academic fraud.

 

Which part of "fraud" (which academic fraud  *IS* - it is also a terms of service violation) is difficult to understand?

Ghostwriting is not fraud, and not a terms of service violation.

In my opinion ghostwriting is not unethical either, but if you have an ethical problem with ghostwriting, don't take ghostwriting jobs.

 

 

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
9 of 23

Wilfred:

Don't worry. I have read the entire thread. And I do NOT think that you were trying to offend ghostwriters or anybody else. You're simply asking questions.

 

You believe that ghostwriting is unethical. (And you're right! It IS unethical.) (Altough people who believe it IS ethical are also correct.)

 

And you're wondering: Well, if doing somebody's university homework for them is unethical, and that's prohibited as an Upwork job... Then if ghostwriting is unethical, then why isn't THAT prohibited as well?

 

The answer is simple: Upwork DOES NOT PROHIBIT job postings to do unethical work. Nor does it prohibit "unethical job postings."

 

The reason that posting a job to do a university student's homework assignment for her is prohibited on Upwork is NOT because such a job is "unethical." It is because this type of work is specifically prohibited by Upwork.

 

There are many types of work that are prohibited on Upwork, but which are NOT unethical.

 

For example: Upwork prohibits job postings from people living in Syria.

 

That doesn't mean that it is "unethical" for people in Syria to work, or hire freelancers, or post job postings on freelance work platforms.

 

But these jobs ARE prohibited on Upwork.

 

Similarly, there are COUNTLESS job postings that Upwork DOES ALLOW, which ARE UNETHICAL. But Upwork DOES allow these jobs, because these jobs do NOT violate its ToS.

 

For example, there are job postings which clearly indicate that a client is willing to pay over $60 per hour to a freelancer. But such a pay rate is unethical by many people's standards. There are people who believe that as long as some people in the world live in poverty, nobody should be paid rates which represent such a huge disparity between rich and poor. There are other jobs which indicate that they want to pay very low pay rates - rates which ARE ALLOWED by Upwork ToS, but which many people believe are unethically low. Some people believe that a client based in the United States (for example) should NOT BE ALLOWED to pay an hourly rate that is below the U.S. federal minimum wage - even if the freelancer being hired lives in a place where such a rate would be far above their local minimum wage.

 

Some people believe that vehicles which use fossil fuels (such as gasoline) represent a grave thread to our world due to climate change. Some politicians have stated that they want to put oil company executives in jail. By the standards of these people, working for companies that promote the sale of fossil fuels or vehicles which utilize gasoline would be unethical. Nevertheless, Upwork DOES ALLOW these "unethical" job postings.

 

To summarize: Users are allowed to "flag as inappropriate" job posting which clearly violate Upwork ToS or stated Upwork policies. But users must not flag job postings because they personally believe a job posting is "unethical."

Active Member
Wilfrid F Member Since: Aug 1, 2019
10 of 23

Well, thanks for the answers Petra and Preston. Indeed, I was too much focusing on a wrong debate ethical/unethical, while it's just a matter of terms of service violation. To be clear, those Upwork terms of service are very dense and as a newcomer I am always anxious to violate a rule by error or misunderstanding.

 

I don't really think ghostwriting is something criticable per se since both side of the contract are free and I would gladly apply, but sometimes the purpose is depreciable. When a famous writer, for example, is well-known to never have written the major part of his best-sellers during his career, it's just something laughable and the vulgus should not be deceived, but this is just my opinion...

 

 

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