why upwork going worst day by day ? | payment reveresed chargeback , not secure freelancers

[#1]

Now I notice that Upwork going to worst day by day.

today I got the notification for the reverse payment and chargeback and the contract was closed prox 50days ago with 5 stars and good feedback.

1. why do we use Upwork if someone hires freelancers and reverses all payments after 1 or 2 months and repeat this loop again and again with a new account? ( so basically we will work for free? )

2 . I added all proof of work and chats but even after 6 hours no reply from the Upwork support team ( looks like it's normal for Upwork, why Upwork employee is too lazy and not guiding me on what I can do ?)

3. I notice that Upwork saying contact your client and ask for a discussion (since the client is doing scam and why Upwork is thinking he/she will come for a discussion ? ) 

4.  I notice that upwork in mention rebuttal and I don't know what is this.

5. why does upwork have 7 day processing time if anytime upwork can reverse the payment?

6. who will give compensation for my time and afford after chargeback(payment reversed )?

( upwork you are totally responsible for this you can't just run away )

*Edited for Community Guidelines**

[#2]

Hi Raj,

This is a difficult situation and I understand your frustration. Some reversals (chargebacks) are a result of the client contacting their bank and asking them to reverse the payment.

In these cases, we look to our Terms of Service (TOS) for guidance and follow it by taking two steps:

1. We seek reimbursement from freelancers/agencies in cases where their client makes a payment, asks their bank to reverse it, and the bank does. (see more detail in sections 6.3-6.5 in our TOS).

2. We review the client’s Upwork account because reversing a payment, in most cases, is against our TOS and can result in us permanently suspending their Upwork account.

Aside from these steps, the Upwork team also helps the freelancer or agency challenge the reversal.

Our team can submit a rebuttal to the client’s bank on the freelancer’s behalf if they provide a proof of the work or deliverables. They would need to move quickly, so please provide the requested proof within 48 hours of being notified of the reversal if you’d like us to proceed. Keep in mind that it can take the bank up to 90 days to review and provide their final decision. The client’s bank will have the final say regarding the rebuttal and we have no control over the outcome.

I also already reached out to the team handling your support ticket. If you wish to update the team with new information, I highly suggest that you post it on the ticket thread. Otherwise, please refrain from sending follow-ups on the same ticket thread to make sure the team assists you more efficiently.

[#3]

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Annie Jane B wrote:

Hi Raj,

This is a difficult situation and I understand your frustration. Some reversals (chargebacks) are a result of the client contacting their bank and asking them to reverse the payment.

In these cases, we look to our Terms of Service (TOS) for guidance and follow it by taking two steps:

1. We seek reimbursement from freelancers/agencies in cases where their client makes a payment, asks their bank to reverse it, and the bank does. (see more detail in sections 6.3-6.5 in our TOS).

2. We review the client’s Upwork account because reversing a payment, in most cases, is against our TOS and can result in us permanently suspending their Upwork account.

Aside from these steps, the Upwork team also helps the freelancer or agency challenge the reversal.

Our team can submit a rebuttal to the client’s bank on the freelancer’s behalf if they provide a proof of the work or deliverables. They would need to move quickly, so please provide the requested proof within 48 hours of being notified of the reversal if you’d like us to proceed. Keep in mind that it can take the bank up to 90 days to review and provide their final decision. The client’s bank will have the final say regarding the rebuttal and we have no control over the outcome.

I also already reached out to the team handling your support ticket. If you wish to update the team with new information, I highly suggest that you post it on the ticket thread. Otherwise, please refrain from sending follow-ups on the same ticket thread to make sure the team assists you more efficiently.

---

Hi Annie Jane,

Could you tell me in which cases a chargeback is not against the ToS?

And by the way, can you tell me where I can change the color of the text to highlight what I'm replying to? Before it was there, now, either it isn't or I can't find it.

[#4]

Maria, 

We won't be able to discuss specific or hypothetical situations as they may vary. However, I encourage you to check out sections 6.4 and 6.5 of the TOS which specifically discusses chargeback. 

[#5]

looks like the upwork support team doing nothing except setting the status as solved in the ticket.
I submitted all chat history and project files that I have within two hours when I received the chargeback notification but I got a reply from upwork after 6-7 hours ( this issue is highly sensitive why support team take 6 hours? ) .?

and  If final judgement will come within 90 days why my account is restricted now?

why upwork is not taking any legal action Like filing an FIR in the client's country?

did you know any people who read the all Terms of Service ?

we trust on upwork you can not just run away from your responsibility.

big power comes with a big responsibility.

[#6]

today I want to share the hidden trust about so-called upwork (nowadays worst in really ).

FACT 1:

month 1: Assume that I am a client and hired 5 freelancers for 5 projects 5 freelancers did the work and I paid 5000$ after one month I file a reversed chargeback from the bank and I got my money back.

again next month 2 :

I create a new account and hired freelancers to pay the money after the month-end chargeback from the bank.

again next month 3 : repeat from month 1 (you can do your project without even pay 1$. )

FACT 2:

did you know your money is not safe even after 2-3month or 1 year?

FACT 3 :

did you know anytime when you create a support ticket support, the support member is only interested in set the ticket status as solved instead of solving the problem in reality?

[#7]

If you will do too many chargebacks, bank will kick you as a client and you will have a problem opening an account anywhere else. Don't think that it comes for free to these people.

[#8]

in most of the country, users can open multiple accounts in different banks. so just client can use bank alternative way .

[#9]

You don't understand chargebacks. The thief uses a stolen credit card number. When Upwork checks it out at the beginning, it looks legitimate. After the freelancer does nonsense work or buys something, the card is discovered as stolen. It is the bank that issued the chargeback, not Upwork, that is responsible. The person whose card it was is not going to pay you, and Upwork is not going to give you their money. Unfortunately, many banks are aware of the issue but haven't taken action. There are rare cases where the freelancer wins, but hardly ever.

By the way, I have read almost everything on this site at one time or another. I definitely read the Terms of Service before I even set up a profile. I didn't know if I even wanted to do it because I didn't know how the platform worked. Yep, I read every word of the Terms. Do I have it memorized? Of course not. But I know enough, and if I have questions, I read more, or I can bring my concerns here.

[#10]

What could banks probably do in this context? Their clients' CC number was stolen and used by a thief. They will naturally honor the chargeback.

[#11]

Alexander but in my case cc was not hacked. but also if your cc is hacked you have to do the proper action on time . it don't make sense to file the chargeback action after 2 month.

[#12]

One thing they can do is improve their software to show the list of people who have said their card was stolen before days have passed. It is not uncommon for multiple charges to be run on the stolen card, and then everyone loses money. They can also improve their tracking of customers who are criminals and repeatedly use stolen cards.

When a bank becomes aware of a fraudulent scheme or pattern of schemes, they have the ability and responsibility to stop it. A big suit or a class action is probably all that will stop this aiding and abetting of crimes. The banks don't care because it is no big deal to them. They don't lose any money.

I'm not just speaking out of hand. I know people in banking that work with the system and work on many bank systems. There are fairly simple ways to drastically reduce the amount of damage done. When you can pay dodge-coin and get credit card numbers off the web, the banks must stop collaborating with the criminals. Until they suffer financially, nothing will change; hence the resolution likely will lie within the legal realm.

[#13]

That is where the problem lies.  I don't belive upwork is doing enough to verify buyer's identity or verifying the credit card.  They may send couple of small charges, and reverse them.  However,  I don't belive they ask the buyer to verify those charges!  

They have 'chosen' not to invest in fraud prevention.   At most they lose their commission.   Freelancer pays most of it anyway.

[#14]

Upwork is like all businesses when it comes to chargebacks. Most businesses will provide all documentation, their Terms of Service, and why it is a violation of their rules. These efforts have little to nothing to do with the bank's decision.

This is a pendulum swing from the time when businesses were ripping off consumers by doing bait and switch. The banking industry responded by treating the customer as always right, and chargebacks began to grow.

Then the scammers took up the cause with a vengeance. It has taken years to reach the level it is now. Yes, businesses could lobby and try to change the laws and current banking practices. I don't see that happening. Upwork could change their practices, but considering they don't verify an email for clients, that isn't happening either.

Until legal pressure is applied to the banks and businesses, nothing will change. Yes, the freelancer pays the price, which is why nothing is being done. An individual could try and file, but it seems like this is a class action effort. I can find nothing in the upcoming bills from the US federal legislators that address this matter. I have talked to my state reps,, who are clueless that it is a problem. Once informed, it was, "That sounds like an issue with the bank. You should pursue the problem there."

Nothing will change until the banks and businesses suffer more than just angry customere. I see no way to force change other than 1) make the banks acknowledge their role in the situation and make changes, 2) make the businesses acknowledge their role in the situation and make changes, 3) make the judicial system acknowledge their role in the situation and make changes.

Until then, freelancers must do everything possible to protect themselves. In the majority of cases, freelancers break the Terms.

[#15]

I truly agree with you Prashant.

[#16]

Facing the same issue I created 2 tickets,  21 hours ago & 2 days ago and still I haven't received a single response from Upwork.  How can someone be too lazy

[#17]

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Raj K wrote:

looks like the upwork support team doing nothing except setting the status as solved in the ticket.
I submitted all chat history and project files that I have within two hours when I received the chargeback notification but I got a reply from upwork after 6-7 hours ( this issue is highly sensitive why support team take 6 hours? ) .?

and  If final judgement will come within 90 days why my account is restricted now?

why upwork is not taking any legal action Like filing an FIR in the client's country?

did you know any people who read the all Terms of Service ?

we trust on upwork you can not just run away from your responsibility.

big power comes with a big responsibility.

---

I have, and it cost me a lot of suffering. And just like me, many other freelancers who are not lying when they say that they have read them when creating their account.

[#18]

You are not protected unless you use the time tracker. Unless the bank reverses the chargeback, and they almost never do, there is no way for you to get the money back and you will have to pay Upwork back.

[#19]

Peter today this happen to me . in future maybe this can happen to you so please don't keep silent  raise your voice  againt this parcility.

[#20]

This can happen to anyone, anytime, unless you use the time tracker for hourly jobs. And for many of us, using it is not an option for the type of work we do. So yes, the risk of not getting paid and not being able to do anything about that is always there and is a part of using Upwork.

[#21]

The client also allows you to  add manually hours what you have to say about this because Client approves and says you can add manually hours and  it depends on the project for example I do youtube monetization I can add hours manually if I show monetization then  the tricks will be revealed in auto time tracker so First I asked client about manual hours he said you can do it in Conversation  as per his/her request we did plus we can't use automatic time tracker on every job there are some secrets that can't be reveal while doing digital marketing stuff.

[#22]

If the client says that they will allow you to manually add time, then you need to blame the client if they then do a chargeback. If you want Upwork to cover your losses, then you need to follow THEIR rules for payment protection - it doesn't matter what your client says.

[#23]

every job doesn't have hourly so this is not the solution to use hourly instead of fixed-job.

Assume that you worked on a project and after 2 months upowrk came and say hey I want the money back because I got chargeback requests.  does it make any sense?

upwork has to set the proper limit so if clients want to charge back they can apply only within 7 days.

[#24]

> upwork has to set the proper limit

It is beyond their power. Please read again above for explanation about credit card chargeback.

But I agree it's silly however.

[#25]

Radia but without proper investigation how can they accept the chargeback?
assume that you worked in a company and after two months the company say Hye I want all money back that I paid you.

is this legal?