Aug 31, 2021 06:42:39 PM by Amer I
41 proposals and not one single response? Does that even make sense?
Solved! Go to Solution.
Sep 1, 2021 09:15:14 AM by Christine A
Amer I wrote:I have raised a concern in this thread & I was wondering if you have any feedback on that matter especially that you have been around since 2014 & with a IT background.
Yes, Upwork marks some proposals "best match" even in some cases where the freelancer has no experience and no indication that they possess the desired skill. Even worse, in the search results that encourage a client to invite freelancers after posting a project, Upwork designates some people as being in the top percentile of their category, e.g. "top 5% of logo designers", again seemingly based on thin air. (The last time I checked my own profile, it said that I'm in the top 20% for admin work, even though it's a service that I have never offered.) It's very frustrating and I wish that Upwork would let clients decide on the quality of our profiles for themselves instead of misleading them. In spite of this, I do still get enough projects that Upwork is worth my time.
Anyway, I imagine that the best match designations soon won't matter, because Upwork is apparently bringing in a system where we'll have to spend connects in order to be seen by clients, whether in proposals or in the search results. New freelancers with deep pockets will probably have an easier time getting their first gig.
As for your question about whether it's normal to get no response after sending 41 proposals, the answer to that is unfortunately "yes". Even freelancers who are eventually successful have said that it took them a month or longer to get their first project (including me). I would advise working on your profile overview more (it sounds a bit generic and not client-focussed at the moment), and replace your profile photo with one in which you're smiling and looking more friendly.
Aug 31, 2021 06:57:23 PM by Petra R
Amer I wrote:41 proposals and not one single response? Does that even make sense?
It means that clients do not find your proposals appealing.
Aug 31, 2021 07:07:02 PM Edited Aug 31, 2021 07:13:00 PM by Amer I
Reposting
Post from Julianne G - 2015
Proposals are one of the most critical factors of job awards. But how can you win if you don’t know the rules of the game? Well, I had a teeny tiny job that I needed done, and so I posted a job on UpWork. My first one here. If nothing else, it was certainly an interesting exercise in understanding how things work here, and what the client sees when they read our proposals. For what it’s worth, I thought I’d share for other Elance to UpWork migrants, or any other new person.
1) The job posting process was fairly straightforward and simple. I was forced to choose between the $, $$, and $$$ metric, although I wanted to leave that blank, since I have to put a budget in anyway (the budget is my budget; who am I to say whether that rate is equivalent to an inexperienced or experienced freelancer rate?)
2) During the posting process, I was prompted several times to accept recommendations from UpWork for who I would invite. I declined multiple times. I’d like to invite my own freelancers and am completely unconcerned with who UpWork thinks I should hire. Asking more than once seemed silly.
3) The search feature for providers seemed adequate. I was able to filter by how recently they’ve been active, where they are located, and what their skills are. The search results seemed applicable.
4) I invited about 10 people. The next morning, I was inundated with emails. I received two emails for each applicant. Not sure why this was necessary. A little overkill, perhaps.
5) When I logged into UpWork to view the proposals, the screen showed 6 applicants, with NO OPTION to scroll further, and no option at the bottom to go to the next page of applicants. If I hadn’t looked to see a tiny little number on the top right hand side, I never would have even known there were more proposals than what was showing on the screen. It does not say “page 1 of 2” or anything like that. Just six proposals. But in a box on the right, it shows 13 applicants. It took me a minute or two to figure out how to view all the proposals. This seems super unfair for those who didn’t make the first page. The six that did show up on the first page were on there because they were “recommended” by UpWork (didn’t I already tell them on several occasions that I didn’t want their recommendations?”)
6) What’s really interesting is what shows up on the page where you view all your proposals (or should I say, the 6 that UpWork thought I should see). Providers, when you are writing your proposal, IF you respond to the question “Do you have any questions about this job?” the first line of your answer shows up. That’s it. Even if you entered “No.” (so that's all that would show up) If you didn’t enter anything at all in this box, what shows up is the first line or two of your actual proposal. Now, I don’t know about every client, but if I had 30 applicants, I wouldn’t read the entire proposal for all candidates, or investigate them all (unless I found no suitable candidates). It seems to me that this first line could be your only shot at getting the client’s attention.
7) I looked at a few profiles for the applicants. On the first profile I viewed, there was a popup next to the JSS that said, “Is this helpful?” asking me to click yes or no. This tells me UpWork is not yet sold on the JSS, and is asking clients their opinion on this. For all you JSS haters, there is hope.
😎 Also from this proposal page, there is a little box on the top of each application that lets you remove the applicant from the possible choices for a variety of reasons. The reasons are as follows: “Okay, but not quite right” , “Clearly not qualified”, “Qualified, but too expensive”, “Poor comments in work history”, “Poor quality cover letter”. “Other”, “Report to Upwork...” It says “The freelancer will not be notified. Your feedback helps Upwork improve our freelancer recommendations.” Meaning that clients are now able to influence who UpWork recommends with this feature, without the applicant being notified. (This might be bad news for all you robot bidders.) So the next time you think about answering a proposal just for the heck of it, or repsonding with questions, or responding to an invite to a scam job with a note to the client about how they can't ask for free work or homework, or whatever--don't.
A few other comments. I wish I was clever enough to provide a screen shot (and blur out names) of what the client sees from the page where all the applicants are displayed. Oh well. I'll just explain it. This is what shows up on the list of applicants page, from left to right, top to bottom:
Line 1 a)Profile pic. If they were invited, the profile pic has a “invited” text box below the pic. b) HUGE YELLOW BUTTON that says “Recommended” if UpWork recommended them. This is bigger than anything else on the page. WHY? c) Name. d) Title (Elancers, if you migrated, this is still your tagline unless you changed it!) . e)Button to either shortlist the applicant or kick them to the curb.
Line 2 a) Bid amount (but it took me a while to figure out if this was their normal rate, the bid itself, or what. It’s not labeled, just the amount itself). b) Badge (top rated, rising talent, or nothing). c) Job success percent. d) How many hours they have (this is not good for providers who mainly worked fixed price, which seems silly since I was hiring for a fixed price job), OR “new to UpWork” if they have no hours. e) Location.
Line 3. “Do you have any questions about the job description?”
Line 4: Answer to above
Or if that question wasn’t answered…
Line 3: first line of actual proposal
Line 2: Second line of actual proposal
It occurred to me only when I was a client, and not a provider, that there is no official place to put turnaround time, how long it will take to complete or anything like that. I’m used to Elance requiring this.
A bit about who was recommended of the applicants: I was unable to determine what logic is used to decide who is recommended and who is not. I had “New to UpWork” applicants who were recommended—not even history to calculate a JSS. There were also “Top Rated” providers who were recommended, as well as applicants with an 88% JSS. On the other hand, there were top rated providers with 100% JSS who did not get that “recommended” status, who clearly had the skills listed that I required.
I received one decline from my invites. I could not see anywhere that it said why the invite was declined. I’m not sure this is passed onto the client, and that's too bad.
I realize in retrospect when I received two emails for each proposal, this is incorrect. I received two emails for each recommended applicant. I received one email for all other applicants, unless they messaged me, in which case I had two.
Inviting a provider is the same as asking them to “interview”. Who knew?
In the one decline notification I received, UpWork again suggested three more possible candidates to hire. This seems like a desperate attempt to ensure each client finds a suitable provider...
Well, there you have it.
--Juli
Aug 31, 2021 07:09:51 PM Edited Aug 31, 2021 07:13:35 PM by Amer I
the post above is one that I found here it goes back to 2015, were those claims true? are they still?
Aug 31, 2021 08:15:13 PM by Viacheslav K
You might be trying to hard. No client likes desperate freelancers.
Keep your proposals short. Get to the point. The main point of the proposal is for the client to look at your profile. Then they decide if they want to work with you.
Put a number, let's say 100. Send that many proposals but don't expect them to respond. Write it and forget you ever send it.
You can give up after. But you might be presently surprised. Also, knowing that you have a limited number of proposals you can send before giving up - you will be a bit more selective where you want to send them.
Aug 31, 2021 09:04:08 PM Edited Aug 31, 2021 09:05:12 PM by Amer I
"... No client likes desperate freelancers." certainly not, but I am sure that is not the issue.
Anyhow thank you for the rest but I would rather have someone comment on Julianne's post content,
here are some of the replies from the same thread underlining those concerns:
HB B: "Juli, this is very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to write this.
I cringe reading # 5, because it validates what I had suspected for some time.
Does anyone know how Upwork picks the recommended freelancers? What are the metrics for inclusion in the hallowed group? "
Isabelle Anne A: "Thank you Julianne. This justifies my lack of faith in Upwork"
Bojana 😧 "Thanks, Julianne! This is extremely useful and explains quite a lot of things that go wrong with the hiring process. From what I gathered, Upwork's attempts to "help" actually make the process clunkier and more cumbersome than it should be."
If that was but mostly if that is still true, then it is very disappointing and sad.
Hopefully someone can address this issue properly.
Aug 31, 2021 10:02:49 PM by Preston H
You have a great-looking portfolio.
If you sent me a proposal for a job I posted, I would not read your proposal. I would just look at your portfolio.
Aug 31, 2021 10:31:34 PM by Amer I
Hi Preston,
Thank you for your positive feedback & for taking the time to actually check my portfolio.
I have raised a concern in this thread & I was wondering if you have any feedback on that matter especially that you have been around since 2014 & with a IT background.
Regards
Sep 1, 2021 09:15:14 AM by Christine A
Amer I wrote:I have raised a concern in this thread & I was wondering if you have any feedback on that matter especially that you have been around since 2014 & with a IT background.
Yes, Upwork marks some proposals "best match" even in some cases where the freelancer has no experience and no indication that they possess the desired skill. Even worse, in the search results that encourage a client to invite freelancers after posting a project, Upwork designates some people as being in the top percentile of their category, e.g. "top 5% of logo designers", again seemingly based on thin air. (The last time I checked my own profile, it said that I'm in the top 20% for admin work, even though it's a service that I have never offered.) It's very frustrating and I wish that Upwork would let clients decide on the quality of our profiles for themselves instead of misleading them. In spite of this, I do still get enough projects that Upwork is worth my time.
Anyway, I imagine that the best match designations soon won't matter, because Upwork is apparently bringing in a system where we'll have to spend connects in order to be seen by clients, whether in proposals or in the search results. New freelancers with deep pockets will probably have an easier time getting their first gig.
As for your question about whether it's normal to get no response after sending 41 proposals, the answer to that is unfortunately "yes". Even freelancers who are eventually successful have said that it took them a month or longer to get their first project (including me). I would advise working on your profile overview more (it sounds a bit generic and not client-focussed at the moment), and replace your profile photo with one in which you're smiling and looking more friendly.
Jul 7, 2023 08:05:20 PM by Manuela B
Thank you so much for this, it helped really a lot to have an idea of why we are wasting our time asking aourselves "WHY"