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lesterb22
Community Member

Client not following upwork rules.

What to do if your long term client offer to change time tracker to different platform and do hourly payment outside of upwork?

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
paul_smith_1
Community Member

the only reason a client wants to go outside upwork is to avoid the fees, its a double edge sword, yes you might get a little extra cash (or not) yes your client will be happier employing you but you risk loosing the platforms support and risk loosing the ability to get work through the platform altogether.

 

If its just communicating through another platform then ok its reasonable, people have preferences but to go outside of the platform for logging your hours....... i have done that before but it with a regular client and with a fixed payment arrangement, not an hourly one.

 

i recommend asking why he wants this and make a judgment call. you obviously have to change your contract to a fixed payment if you go outside upwork so you will loose some security. Im pretty sure thats not against policy.

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32 REPLIES 32
g_vasilevski
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member

Hi Lester,

 

Please share the contract ID or your client name with me via PM(click on my name) and our team will investigate it further and proper actions will be taken. Thank you.

~ Goran
Upwork
petra_r
Community Member


Lester B wrote:

What to do if your long term client offer to change time tracker to different platform and do hourly payment outside of upwork?


1) Tell the client that you appreciate working with them, and will be happy to continue to work with them through Upwork as per your contract.

2) Do NOT post about it on a public forum, where anyone including your client can see it.

3) If you want to report the client (which essentially you have already done) for a serious policy violation, do so AFTER the contract ended and you got feedback.

lysis10
Community Member

lol I love these threads. Freelancer just has to tell the client "no" and keep earning $$$. Instead they alert Upwork where the client is gonna get hate mail, get pissed, fire freelancer and leave private feedback. On the off chance Upwork peraban hammers the client and the bad score doesn't count on his JSS, he's just lost long-term income.

 

It's so hilarious.


Jennifer M wrote:

lol I love these threads. Freelancer just has to tell the client "no" and keep earning $$$. Instead they alert Upwork where the client is gonna get hate mail, get pissed, fire freelancer and leave private feedback. On the off chance Upwork peraban hammers the client and the bad score doesn't count on his JSS, he's just lost long-term income.

 

It's so hilarious.


Can't be THAT long-term since his first client is from 11/2018...


Martina P wrote:


Can't be THAT long-term since his first client is from 11/2018...


Well, idk he said long-term so I was going off of his post. I didn't look at his profile, but even if it's only a few months, he's just shot himself in the foot over something as dumb as just telling the dude "nah, I gotta bill through Upwork for two years."

 

 

I have seen alot of abusive clients here posting jobs paying peanuts and even on initial interviews trying to get outside of the platform, Exposing these people is not a bad thing, ill gladly sacrifice my job to expose people who want something for basically nothing.

 

We are apart of the upwork system and this system helps us survive, we need to protect it and help it succeed and personally i feel we need to remove the abusive clients altogether, its outragous how people even offer $5 for a job that takes hours to complete and they still want more. expose them all and get rid of them.


Paul S wrote:

I have seen alot of abusive clients here posting jobs paying peanuts and even on initial interviews trying to get outside of the platform, Exposing these people is not a bad thing, ill gladly sacrifice my job to expose people who want something for basically nothing.

 

We are apart of the upwork system and this system helps us survive, we need to protect it and help it succeed and personally i feel we need to remove the abusive clients altogether, its outragous how people even offer $5 for a job that takes hours to complete and they still want more. expose them all and get rid of them.


ProTip: reporting someone and forcing Upwork's banhammer hand is NOT what they want if you can just say "no" and get them to pay on the platform. I know it's amazing and suprising but like anything that makes us all money is the right answer.

paul_smith_1
Community Member

the only reason a client wants to go outside upwork is to avoid the fees, its a double edge sword, yes you might get a little extra cash (or not) yes your client will be happier employing you but you risk loosing the platforms support and risk loosing the ability to get work through the platform altogether.

 

If its just communicating through another platform then ok its reasonable, people have preferences but to go outside of the platform for logging your hours....... i have done that before but it with a regular client and with a fixed payment arrangement, not an hourly one.

 

i recommend asking why he wants this and make a judgment call. you obviously have to change your contract to a fixed payment if you go outside upwork so you will loose some security. Im pretty sure thats not against policy.


Paul S wrote:

the only reason a client wants to go outside upwork is to avoid the fees, its a double edge sword, yes you might get a little extra cash (or not) yes your client will be happier employing you but you risk loosing the platforms support and risk loosing the ability to get work through the platform altogether.

 

If its just communicating through another platform then ok its reasonable, people have preferences but to go outside of the platform for logging your hours....... i have done that before but it with a regular client and with a fixed payment arrangement, not an hourly one.

 

i recommend asking why he wants this and make a judgment call. you obviously have to change your contract to a fixed payment if you go outside upwork so you will loose some security. Im pretty sure thats not against policy.


Terrble advice. Your last paragraph sounds like you're not sure if going outside of Upwork is against the rules. It is, sweaty, for godsakes this isn't rocket science.  Upwork makes money through payments. Of course anything that takes away payment on the platform is against their ToS. Like, duh.

 

And here is a hot take from your first paragraph. The 2% fees don't mean anything to some people. Some clients aren't doing it to get out of some low rent fee. They think they are doing you a favor or they just don't want to deal with Upwork, don't trust them, whatever their reason. It's not always nefarious. All you gotta do is just say "nah, I gotta stay on upwork." And tbh, I have no problem saying it because I like the hourly billing that I don't have to deal with. Their hourly billing makes things easy for me, so in all reality I personally would rather stay here.

condesending much?

 

going outside of upwork for communication is not new nor is it wrong, if you read my post properly you would see that going outside upwork to monitor your hours is very risky and the ONLY reasons that a client might ask you to do so is because they want to either try bypass the upwork fees OR they prefer to use a program they are familiar with and in which case you NEED to setup fixed payments based on those hours........

 

so darling please dont try and sit on me until you are speaking sense.


but to go outside of the platform for logging your hours....... i have done that before but it with a regular client and with a fixed payment arrangement, not an hourly one.

 


Okay. Thanks for the information.

strange reply from a community leader....

 

let me make myself clear and the rules clear..... taking payments outside of upwork is strictly against the rules and i have never done this. monitoring your hours on 3rd party software is not against the rules and is sometimes the way some clients like to work out how much they need to pay you for your services via a fixed payment method **Edited for community guidelines**

 

Just dont leave yourself vulnerable with a new client doing this, from my experience this only happens after an initial project has been completed and the client wants to take the business relationship further.

sigh.

Never mind

Deleted

yitwail
Community Member

Going back to the original discussion, I'm in the same corner with Petra and Jennifer on this one. It's good policy to give the client the benefit of the doubt, especially if the client's already been paying you, and point out that you cannot accept payment outside Upwork, before reporting the client to CS/Trust & Safety. That way, you'll spare yourself embarrassment and ill feelings, in case the client was suggesting off platform payment as a favor to you. 

 

Incidentally, I have a client who requires that I record hours with Toggl, because all her other contractors, who are not associated with Upwork, use Toggl. So I take the hours from Toggl, and transfer them to my work diary as manual time, and everyone's happy, even though it's a bit more work for me.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
lysis10
Community Member


John K wrote:

Going back to the original discussion, I'm in the same corner with Petra and Jennifer on this one. It's good policy to give the client the benefit of the doubt, especially if the client's already been paying you, and point out that you cannot accept payment outside Upwork, before reporting the client to CS/Trust & Safety. That way, you'll spare yourself embarrassment and ill feelings, in case the client was suggesting off platform payment as a favor to you. 

 

Incidentally, I have a client who requires that I record hours with Toggl, because all her other contractors, who are not associated with Upwork, use Toggl. So I take the hours from Toggl, and transfer them to my work diary as manual time, and everyone's happy, even though it's a bit more work for me.


Mann, I'm in 3 slack channels, 3 Trellos, and one guy switched to a different system so I'm all "what is this I don't know what I'm doing." The things we do for moneysss .  ๐Ÿ™‚

yitwail
Community Member

Lucky me, besides Toggl, I only have 1 slack channel, I *think* 1 basecamp, 1 bitbucket, and 1 github. Cat Very Happy

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

But its ok to have these other channels of communication, its natural and its going to happen, so for the OP wandering if its ok, yes its ok, upwork asks your to keep everything in house because thats what they can monitor and have more control over but the reality is each client has their goto software that they rely on and are used to using, and it makes sense, these guys are busy running businesses and doing their jobs they dont hav time to be learning how new software works and dealing with the problems involved in them etc..


Paul S wrote:

But its ok to have these other channels of communication, its natural and its going to happen, so for the OP wandering if its ok, yes its ok,


Which part of "and do hourly payment " outside the platform did you fail to understand?

The client ended the contract and even states in their feedback that they are now working with (and obviously paying) the OP off the platform.

I very much doubt they have paid the opt-out fee. So if he now gets suspended from Upwork having taken your great advice that it's ok: Well Done....

 

lysis10
Community Member

lol that feedback. oh man hilarious.

 

inb4 "I was suspended for NO REASON" lol

 

We went from freelancer reporting client to freelancer going off platform and client even posting about it in feedback. 10 people tell you don't do it. One rando noob says "go for it it's fine" and he goes for the advice of the rando noob. This should turn out great.


Paul S wrote:

the only reason a client wants to go outside upwork is to avoid the fees


This is dangerously false. Dishonest clients often want to get the freelancer off platform so that they can avoid making payment at all.

this is what happened to me i want to get back to upwork.

This is exactly what is happening now. I need help 

re: "This is exactly what is happening now. I need help"

 

Why do you need help?

 

You have been working for a client. He asked if he could start paying you off-platform. You said no.

 

That's the end of it, isn't it?

 

Are we missing something?


Preston H wrote:

re: "This is exactly what is happening now. I need help"

 

Why do you need help?

 

You have been working for a client. He asked if he could start paying you off-platform. You said no.

 

That's the end of it, isn't it?

 

Are we missing something?


Turns out, he agreed to work for the client outside of upwork, which is when client ended the contract, gave him awful feedback, but told the world that he is working with him outside of upwork. 

So, yes, freelancer REALLY needs help now.

Thank you martina, To tell everyone I am a self supporting student I pay my school fee I am a college student and I am also the one who provide needs of my daughter , pay bills. I am 20 years old and not everyone have a prosperous life like anyone does. I want to pick up myself from the ground and become successful by working hard. I get 2-4 hours of sleep please don't judge me I am not into client who doesn't follow rules as I want to build clean and nice reputation here on upwork and be known to my set of skills/field.


Lester B wrote:

Thank you martina, To tell everyone I am a self supporting student I pay my school fee I am a college student and I am also the one who provide needs of my daughter , pay bills. I am 20 years old and not everyone have a prosperous life like anyone does. I want to pick up myself from the ground and become successful by working hard. I get 2-4 hours of sleep please don't judge me I am not into client who doesn't follow rules as I want to build clean and nice reputation here on upwork and be known to my set of skills/field.


So what you do now:

1. Ask the client to change the awful feedback he gave you and most importantly, change the wording where he indicates he is working with you outside of upwork. He should be satisfied with your work, at least, when he does that, why the bad feedback? Hopefully you still have the option to allow him to change feedback. 

2. Listen to what helpful people on the forum tell you, especially in regards of what is allowed and not allowed. You are seriously risking to be kicked off the platform for this kind of thing. 

Good luck!

He doesn't want to, He says its not a professional act. What can i do?


Lester B wrote:

He doesn't want to, He says its not a professional act. What can i do?


Then tell that loser to kick rocks and move on.

 

Once again, the #1 rule of Upwork "Thou shalt take money by billing through Upwork and you shall enter the pearly gates of freedom heaven."

What can I tell him ? Obviously his comment will remain there even if I graduated from college. And his starting statement seems to tell that he hired me through upwork now I am in direct which is not good. What can I do ?


Lester B wrote:

What can I tell him ? Obviously his comment will remain there even if I graduated from college. And his starting statement seems to tell that he hired me through upwork now I am in direct which is not good. What can I do ?


in my very humble experience, it doesn't really take much energy to type the letters "n" and "o" in chat and then move on with your day. Upwork even has a nifty block feature, but when they rage at me over dumb things I just sit and enjoy the show. Blocking would kill the glorious funny ragefacer drama.


Lester B wrote:

Thank you martina, To tell everyone I am a self supporting student I pay my school fee I am a college student and I am also the one who provide needs of my daughter , pay bills. I am 20 years old and not everyone have a prosperous life like anyone does. I want to pick up myself from the ground and become successful by working hard. I get 2-4 hours of sleep please don't judge me I am not into client who doesn't follow rules as I want to build clean and nice reputation here on upwork and be known to my set of skills/field.


OK Mr 20 year old with bills, I'm gonna give you the cold hard truth of the world so you can avoid doing dumb things. Upwork is a corporation and they are in it to make money. They don't care about your fee fees and they don't care about your kid or your problems. They want money. But, you can make some nice $$$$$$ on Upwork as long as you make them money. You make them money by billing through their system. They will leave you alone if you make them money. The only way to make them money is to bill through their system.

 

So ignore the dumb noob advice and live by the #1 rule on Upwork "Bill through Upwork." If you do this, nothing else matters. As long as you're not scamming people and the cash is flowing, Upwork doesn't care whatsoever about what you do do make money. They will leave you alone, and the great thing is you can live a really nice life. As long as everyone is making money, everyone is happy.

 

So don't do dumb things and take the billing off of Upwork. That's all you gotta remember. Treat Upwork as a big corporation that just wants money, but in doing so you make money too and you can pay your bills.

Hilarious. Took the advice of some rando noob that said "sure go for it" while 45 other people said "don't do it." 

 

I come here for moments like this.

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