Feedback and the Job Success Score

[david_giarratana]

I am a bit upset with you, Upwork. I don't think you make it sufficiently clear that both parties must give feedback in order for the feedback to be made visible. I couldn't benefit from the 5 star ratings I deserved for my hard work because of this. Worse still, I still have a non-existent "Job Success Score", while it should be 100%.

Where can I learn about all of these little details, so that something like this doesn't happen again? I'm upset because 1) it seems like there are thousands of mysterious rules which are buried in some document that isn't even the TOS and 2) I left my clients hanging because I thought they left me hanging, and they must have thought I was a massive jerk, despite the reality being that I just didn't understand how Upwork works.

Edit: Now I see that I need maybe kind of around 5 successful jobs perhaps possibly to get a JSS (see what I mean about the myriad rules buried in various documents?), so I took a look at the "Rising Talent" status:

As Rising Talent, you must:

• Pass the Upwork Readiness Test (link in email invitation)
• Have at least one contract (but too few to receive a JSS) and deliver great results to your clients
• Complete your projects on time and as promised
• Maintain a 100% complete profile that accurately showcases your professional credentials
• Keep your availability status up-to-date
• Regularly submit proposals to projects relevant to your skill set
• Adhere to the Upwork Terms of Service
• Have been active in the past 90 days (submitting proposals or delivering work) or have joined in the past 30 days

I meet all of the requirements. Am I going to have to wait two weeks to see any benefit from the low-paying jobs I took, or am I missing something?

I'm not trying to stir things up, but even you, Upwork, are worthy of criticism.

[mtngigi]

Welcome fellow Coloradan.

As a new user, it's recommended that you spend a little time perusing the many help articles you'll find under the question mark on your account page - feedback info included (it's a double-blind system). No, Upwork isn't perfect, but neither is it a good idea to jump in without learning at least the basics of the ins and outs of how the site works..

Rising talent happens automatically if you qualify - but it's not a big deal. A great many of us never had rising talent badges and have done just fine without it.

[david_giarratana]

Well hello there, Virginia! Colorado #1!

I have to say, I find it difficult to accept your response. Specifically, I struggle with the phrase "the basics". If this information is basic, why is it not explicated in this file linked from the landing page of the Upwork Readiness Test? https://content-static.upwork.com/blog/uploads/sites/3/2016/06/10103934/16-0516-r1-FreelancerManual-... (it's the Freelancer Manual for Upwork, in case the link is deleted.)

Here is what Upwork should do: on the "My Jobs" page, where the active and recently concluded contracts are listed, a simple, small, no-big-deal statement should be placed in a visible location:

"The client and freelancer ratings work on a double-blind system. Both you and the client must provide feedback before either become visible on your respective profiles."

No problem, right? It cannot be called basic, as it is not described in the introductory information that is made available to newbies (though this could change, which would also solve the problem).

As for rising talent, I understand that it's not necessary, but it's clear that it would benefit me. Rather, it's clear that potential clients will see that I "do not meet this requirement", thus putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, it really bothers me that I do not have this status despite meeting its listed requirements.

[mtngigi]

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@david_giarratana wrote:

Well hello there, Virginia! Colorado #1!

I have to say, I find it difficult to accept your response. Specifically, I struggle with the phrase "the basics". If this information is basic, why is it not explicated in this file linked from the landing page of the Upwork Readiness Test? https://content-static.upwork.com/blog/uploads/sites/3/2016/06/10103934/16-0516-r1-FreelancerManual-... (it's the Freelancer Manual for Upwork, in case the link is deleted.)

Here is what Upwork should do: on the "My Jobs" page, where the active and recently concluded contracts are listed, a simple, small, no-big-deal statement should be placed in a visible location:

"The client and freelancer ratings work on a double-blind system. Both you and the client must provide feedback before either become visible on your respective profiles."

No problem, right? It cannot be called basic, as it is not described in the introductory information that is made available to newbies (though this could change, which would also solve the problem).

As for rising talent, I understand that it's not necessary, but it's clear that it would benefit me. Rather, it's clear that potential clients will see that I "do not meet this requirement", thus putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, it really bothers me that I do not have this status despite meeting its listed requirements.

Upwork "should do" a lot of things to improve funtionality and especially in the way information is disseminated. But those of us who have been here for awhile are aware that you may as well be talking to a brick wall when you make suggestions to the powers that be. They don't care what we think (and a mod will probably come along to yell at me about that statement).

To me, reading up on how getting hired, getting paid, and how the feedback system works is basic stuff. The first thing I did was to look under all those icons on my account page to at least skim over the pertinent (to me) items.

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[david_giarratana]

Virginia,

It is your contention, then, that the information I sought is available in these question mark widgets? I have no way of checking this, right now, but I will keep an eye out. Suppose, however, that this is not true. What then? Where else should I be looking?

Upwork "should do" a lot of things to improve funtionality and especially in the way information is disseminated. But those of us who have been here for awhile are aware that you may as well be talking to a brick wall when you make suggestions to the powers that be. They don't care what we think (and a mod will probably come along to yell at me about that statement).

 Then we're both wasting our time. I will continue to provide feedback, despite the discouragement. Perhaps this will fall on deaf ears, and it probably will, but that kind of defeatism can only accomplish nothing. Attempting to communicate grievances at least has a higher ceiling in terms of potential success.

To me, reading up on how getting hired, getting paid, and how the feedback system works is basic stuff.

 Indeed, but it's difficult to classify as "basic" when the information is not readily located unless one knows what to look for.

[martina_plaschka]

---

@David G wrote:

I am a bit upset with you, Upwork. I don't think you make it sufficiently clear that both parties must give feedback in order for the feedback to be made visible. I couldn't benefit from the 5 star ratings I deserved for my hard work because of this. Worse still, I still have a non-existent "Job Success Score", while it should be 100%.

Where can I learn about all of these little details, so that something like this doesn't happen again? I'm upset because 1) it seems like there are thousands of mysterious rules which are buried in some document that isn't even the TOS and 2) I left my clients hanging because I thought they left me hanging, and they must have thought I was a massive jerk, despite the reality being that I just didn't understand how Upwork works.

Edit: Now I see that I need maybe kind of around 5 successful jobs perhaps possibly to get a JSS (see what I mean about the myriad rules buried in various documents?), so I took a look at the "Rising Talent" status:

As Rising Talent, you must:

• Pass the Upwork Readiness Test (link in email invitation)
• Have at least one contract (but too few to receive a JSS) and deliver great results to your clients
• Complete your projects on time and as promised
• Maintain a 100% complete profile that accurately showcases your professional credentials
• Keep your availability status up-to-date
• Regularly submit proposals to projects relevant to your skill set
• Adhere to the Upwork Terms of Service
• Have been active in the past 90 days (submitting proposals or delivering work) or have joined in the past 30 days

I meet all of the requirements. Am I going to have to wait two weeks to see any benefit from the low-paying jobs I took, or am I missing something?

I'm not trying to stir things up, but even you, Upwork, are worthy of criticism.

---

 Feedback is a double blind system. The way it is supposed to work: the client approves milestone, then ends the contract, and leaves feedback at that point. He can't end without feedback. 

Then you receive notification of ending, and are able to give your feedback within 14 days. When both have given feedback, it is made public. 

It also works the other way around, you end the contract, give feedback, and wait for the clients feedback. I believe in that situation, it is less likely to receive any feedback, because clients are aware that they should be the ones ending contracts.

I don't know in what context you say that you have left the client hanging, that is really not possible at all. 

And then I see often feedback on profiles, where no party has left feedback. Those are a complete mystery to me, because in my understanding, that is not possible. Maybe someone with knowledge of the finer points can clarify that for me. 

And yes, it takes time to understand the workings of all of that, but fellow forum members are a most helpful bunch!

[david_giarratana]

Martina, thank you very much for your thorough reply.

I now understand that feedback is:

1. Double-blind.
2. Required from both parties before jobs can appear on one's profile.

My problem is that this information is not clearly communicated to freelancers or to clients. I know it now, but it would have been much better had this information been communicated to me and to the clients on the same page where feedback is requested (the "My Jobs" page, for me).

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@martina_plaschkaThen you receive notification of ending, and are able to give your feedback within 14 days. When both have given feedback, it is made public. 

This highlights my main point: where, precisely, is this 14 day window explained? It isn't in any introductory material that I can readily find (and if it isn't readily located by someone unaware of the issue, it isn't effective introductory material) and it certainly isn't where it belongs: on the "My Jobs" page.

I don't know in what context you say that you have left the client hanging, that is really not possible at all. 

I don't understand what you mean when you say that it is "not possible at all." My first client left me feedback, but I had no idea, and I asked him to provide feedback for my work (not good feedback, not five stars, just feedback). I told him I would reciprocate, but I had no way of knowing whether he had done so or not. Only after working with another client was I able to recognize the problem. This is unnecessary and easily addressed by putting this information on the "My Jobs" page.

[martina_plaschka · Accepted solution]

David, I completely understand your frustration. I am 2 month on upwork now and realize that I don't understand a lot of the inner workings yet.

When the client ends a contract, you receive an email. When you open it, you can clearly see a huge green button to give feedback. The client can't end the contract without giving feedback, so once you give your feedback, it appears shortly on your profile. 

Some clients, I found, especially the ones who need urgent 24 hour turn-around, don't care much about ending the contract, though. This is annoying because then the tiny projects appear on your profile as work in progress, and that looks really weird, when you have a 10$ job as work in progress for a long time. Then at some point you will have to end the contract from your side....

I am still puzzled, as I said, how it is possible to see contracts with no feedback from both sides. But, still learning....

Btw, the Community Leader distinction, though I am immensly proud of it ... 😉 does not really mean a whole lot. I guess I was awarded with it because I post a lot.... 

So you probably have clients that did not end the contract. You can friendly remind them once or twice, and then move on ...

[david_giarratana]

Martina,

Thank you for the additional information. I suppose that I should count myself lucky that I haven't yet been taken advantage of by any clients. This is actually why I feel so terribly about my not providing feedback to my first client, sooner. I tried to send him an apology, but never received a response. I suppose there's nothing for it but to dive into the documentation that is available and take extensive notes.

[g_vasilevski]

Hi David,

Thank you for your feedback, I will share this with our product managers.
Additionally if you have any questions feel free to post them here or send us (Moderators) a PM and we will advise you accordingly.

Please note, that this information as well as the link to this help article is available on the End Contract Page.

[david_giarratana]

Thank you, Goran. I appreciate the gesture, whether or not anything changes.