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jhoward444
Community Member

Is There a Way to Validate a Client as Legitimate?

I keep being contacted by clients who immediately want to take the conversation outside of Upwork. The most recent contact had all the credentials -- payment verified, money spent for previous jobs, etc. I checked out the business's website and everything looks really good there.  On the other hand, I know how easy it is to spoof a person's identity and business. He said Upwork hasn't worked well for interviews, but isn't that one of the main things Upwork  offers and recommends?  Is there a way to validate/legitimize a client who contacts me?  I know they must go through some registration process with Upwork and, if legitimate, maybe a list could be available for freelancers to check before moving forward?  Although I know Upwork still doesn't recommend talking outside of Upwork, right?  Is that my red flag, end of story?

 

 

12 REPLIES 12
prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "Is there a way to validate a client as legitimate?"

 

There are two answers to this question:

Yes.

No.

 

Both are correct.

 

The answer is "no" in the sense that there is no "list" you can check. Nor is there a "button" you can click, labelled "Validate Client."

But the answer is "yes" in the sense that an experienced freelancer knows whether or not a client is legitimate or not.

 

In fact, an experienced freelancer can typically identify scammers/illegitimate climates within only one or two seconds of looking at an invitation from them.

 

re: "I checked out the business's website and everything looks really good there."

I recommend never doing this.

I never do this.
I have completed hundreds of jobs on Upwork. I hae never Googled a client's name or business.

Although I don't personally Google any clients, I understand the temptation to do so. Experienced Upwork freelancers may can safely Google client names. But Googling client names is very problematic for newbies/inexperienced Upwork freelancers. This is because Googling the client name is a key part of the scams that are most commonly used. Scammers WANT you to Google the names they feed you, because seeing impressive company websites tricks inexperienced freelancers into believing that the clients are legitimate. But really the scammers just copy those names off of the Internet.

 

The SAFE way to know if a client is legitimate or not is to see how they behave, and to look at their stats on Upwork itself.

 

re: "I know they must go through some registration process with Upwork"

 

It is very easy to register as a client.

Clients are NOT vetted.
Scammers simply create fake client accounts as often as they need to.
A single scammer may have created dozens or hundreds of fake account by the time they send you an invitation. When they are caught scamming, Upwork removes their account, and they just create a new one.

 

re: "if legitimate, maybe a list could be available for freelancers to check before moving forward?"
There will never be a list.

 

re: "Although I know Upwork still doesn't recommend talking outside of Upwork, right?"

 

As of June 26, 2020, Upwork does not allow communicating with clients off-platform until an official contract is in place. This means that until you are hired, you must communicate using Upwork's Messages tool.

 

re: "Is that my red flag, end of story?"

Well, a traditional money scammer usually wants to communicate off-site, NOT through Upwork's Messages tool. BUT: You must still be cautious. The scammes who want to steal your money will usually want to communicate off-site. But there are also scammers who only communicate with the Messages tool. This is more common among scammers who aren't trying to steal money from your bank account, but who trick freelancers into working for free.

 

So you can't rely ONLY on the fact that a client doesn't ask you to communicate off-platform.

 

Also: There are MANY clients who are good, honest clients but who don't know about the "no communications off site" rule.

If a prospective client asks you to communicate, you can tell them that you will be happy to do so after you have been hired with an Upwork contract, and that before there is a contract in place, you can communicate with the Messages tool.


When I have mentioned this to legitimate clients, some of them immediately hire me so that they can communicate using their preferred tools, and some of them decide to communicate with me using the Upwork Messages tool.

Thanks for your response, Preston.  I already skip the jobs where payment has not been verified and usually skip the ones with request to talk outside of Upwork, but this client has what I thought were solid Upwork stats:  

 

History

More than 50 proposals 
69 interviews
46 jobs posted
Over $30,000 total spent
2,697 hours billed
1 open job
45 hires
Member since: Apr 21, 2014
 
Am I wrong?  Can those be fabricated?

re: "Can those be fabricated?"

 

No.
Stats like those can't be fabricated.


The stats you posted look like those of a very serious, legitimate client.

re: "I already skip the jobs where payment has not been verified"

 

That's a personal choice that a freelancer must make.

 

I know a lot of freelancers skip jobs where the payment has not been verified.


I don't.

I don't even pay any attention to that when applying to jobs.

 

I believe that most experienced freelancers are open to job postings from non-payment-verified clients, but we make sure that the client becomes payment verified before we actually start doing the work.

So, if you were in my shoes, would you take the conversation onto Skype, as he's asking?


Julie H wrote:

So, if you were in my shoes, would you take the conversation onto Skype, as he's asking?


Upwork's new terms of service require that conversations be on Upwork's messenger until a contract is signed. So, no. You should not take the conversation to Skype. Keep it on the messenger until you've accepted an offer from the client.


Julie H wrote:

So, if you were in my shoes, would you take the conversation onto Skype, as he's asking?





Of course not, as Preston has said, that is explicitely forbidden by upwork and can get you suspended. 

Many clients do not know or care that freelancers are not allowed to do that. It is up to you to enforce it. After you are hired, you may use skype or whatever the client likes, but not before!


Julie H wrote:

Thanks for your response, Preston.  I already skip the jobs where payment has not been verified and usually skip the ones with request to talk outside of Upwork, but this client has what I thought were solid Upwork stats:  

 

History

More than 50 proposals 
69 interviews
46 jobs posted
Over $30,000 total spent
2,697 hours billed
1 open job
45 hires
Member since: Apr 21, 2014
 
Am I wrong?  Can those be fabricated?

I don't know why you skip jobs with payment not verified, you might lose a perfectly good client, but it's your choice of course. But I guess everybody has their weird reasons why to skip a job, I for example have a strong dislike for typos, sloppy descriptions or somebody who clearly does not love their project. 

The only reason I skip jobs where the payment is unverified is because either I am a magnet for scammers or Upwork is a veritable nest of scammers.  I figure the "payment unverified" might be one way to help cut down on the illegitimate clients.

 

This last contact had excellent credentials and yet immediately wanted to take our conversation out to Skype.  If he were legitimate, he'd know that's not allowed.  Plus, now that I think about it, he's a small business owner.  How could he have posted and filled 46 jobs on Upwork, paying out more than $30,000?

 

I'm at a loss as to how to protect myself and, while Upwork seemed promising at first, I'm starting to think it's bogus as well.  For instance, I recently had to begin paying $14.99/month in order to continue using Upwork -- what do I get for that $14.99?.  And a recent webinar I viewed made mention of a level of pre-vetted freelancers available to a level of select clients, so apparently there's an an entirely "elite" level being enjoyed by a chosen few and the rest of us are just the riff-raff constantly having to defend against scammers? 

 

Sorry.  I just needed to vent.

 

Julie   

Most of my clients are payment unverified when I agree to the contract.  I accept and tell them I can starting working as soon as that's taken care of.  Never had a problem with that approach in 8 years.  First timers on the platform aren't going to give up their payment information until they can see what kind of talent is out there.

 

The "no talking off the platform before hire" thing is pretty new.  I suspect most clients don't pay attention to that kind of stuff anyway.  It's up to you to politely tell them that both the client and the freelancer can be suspended for off-platform discussions prior to hire and that this is new..

Thanks, Mary.  Since I've not made it that far yet, could you give me an idea of what happens if I meet with the client for an interview in one of the Upwork rooms?  Let's say they want to hire me.  Wihat's the next step?  What counts as a contract?  What's the procedure for finalizing that and where is it submitted?  Do they know all this ahead of time?  I'm sure this must all be spelled out somewhere, but I haven't found it yet.  Thanks!  Julie

Julie -

 

There are two threads here you should read through if you haven't done so:

This one, pinned at the top of the forum, on getting started at Upwork.

This one on recognizing scams.

 

Those have a lot of information about how Upwork works and how to avoid scams. 

 

As a newbie here, you are a scammer magnet, in part because they assume there's a good chance you don't know what you're doing. Read through that material and use your common sense to avoid things that seem to good to be true or sound off in other ways, and you'll be fine.

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