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expuser
Community Member

Job warning signs

When reading a job description, what causes you to go "Ut-oh!"? What red flags do you see in applications that at least puts you on your guard, if not actually skip to the next one? Here's some of mine (and others):

 

First and foremost The work is yours until you are paid in full. You own the copyright until you have been paid the agreed sum. If you choose to work for 15 cents per hour then that's your problem. If it takes longer than you thought..again, down to you. BUT. If you have done your bit according to the contract that you agreed, then the work is yours until it's paid for.

 

Asking for payment or to use your own accounts (Thanks Dave!) Money comes from the client to you; anything else and you're doing it wrong. Do not ever (unless you know the client really well, and give it second thoughts even then) pay for something for the client unless you have received the money from them first. Deposit for something; webhosting accounts; domain name; subscription for site X that is "essential for the job" etc etc. No money. Ever. Similarly, do not use your own eBay, Craigslist etc. accounts to list things for sale...chances are high that it will end badly and wreck any good karma you have built up there. And it'll be you in the frame if it turns out that it was illegal.

 

"Bait and Switch" (Thanks Selcalmel!) Clients advertise one job and then offer a different job at interview. Now there can be valid reasons for this; but a big difference between the job description and the work you're being offered should be viewed with extreme suspicion. Mostly on oDesk it's either jobs that you wouldn't have applied for if the job was described honestly or changing the rules to try and get the price down.

 

Too many people being interviewed This can be a sign that the buyer is dividing the job up and giving the various parts as a 'test' to applicants...with the intention of getting the job for free. It could just be that the buyer is looking for a very specific set of skills, or other innocent motive, but maybe not.

NOTE: (Thanks Brandon!) This also applies to the client's history...check the total number of jobs posted versus people hired. If there are a load of jobs posted but few contracts awarded, then proceed with caution.

 

Only low bidders being interviewed If you're not one of the low bidders on that job then it's probably not worth applying.

 

Long list of demands, silly budget We've all seen them; the jobs for an all-singing, all-dancing website for $100, followed by either a HUGE feature list and/or a long list of qualities required by the contractor. Luckily for you, the buyer is advertising the fact that they are a wanker (behaviour which is unlikely to change if you were unfortunate enough to land the contract). This buyer knows the market well enough to know exactly what they want; and must therefore know that the budget is exploitative...move on. And as a corollary to the above (Thanks Louis!):

 

People who bellow orders, often in capitals "SUCH SUCH WILL NOT BE READ I IF [insert term].... OTHERWISE I WILL DELETE YOUR APPLICATION IMMEDIATELY". Or "MUST ATTACH SUCH AND SUCH OTHERWISE YOU ARE WASTING MY TIME". Some people -presumably after watching Alan Sugar or that twat Trump- think that this is how bosses should behave. I see it mostly as a sign of either someone being new to being in a position to call the shots and is a bit insecure about it, or someone who is a natural git. In either case your job will be more difficult because of it. Also, these types of application are frequently paired with a ridiculous budget. Any buyers who are reading this should note that this isn't the way to go about things...also all capitals make it harder to read and you're increasing the chances of applicants missing an important detail. Annoying people before they've even applied for your job cannot possibly help. Am I the only one, by the way, who feels the impulse to reply in kind?: "Listen up bitch. I reckon I can do it in 10 hours which'll cost you $450 and if that isn't good enough then you can just **Edited for Community Guidelines** would be a fairly short application, probably.

 

Mention of half-finished job/previous contractor/s There are two factors here...sorting out what someone else has done often takes longer than just doing whatever it is from scratch. You will very probably be inheriting a hairy-arsed nightmare. The other factor -and a question you should be asking yourself (and the buyer, come to that)- is exactly why the previous contractor didn't finish. It does happen that buyers get a run of bad luck with contractors (often after playing in the lower budget ranges), so it isn't necessarily the buyer's fault. On the other hand, it could be. Rescuing a client from a wall-to-wall catastrophe at the 11th hour is one of the best smug feelings you can get as a freelancer; but these jobs are high-risk...you need to ascertain for yourself that the buyer is genuine before getting in too deep. A note to any buyers reading this: If you've already been through two or more contractors and you still don't have a result, you need to seriously consider throwing a match in and starting with fresh code. I've had jobs where it took significantly longer to find out what the hell the previous guys had done than it would have taken to just bin everything and do the job. And with other people's code, you can never be 100% sure that you haven't missed something important/broken/nasty.

 

One-line descriptions Buyers quite often don't know the information that a contractor needs in order to produce a final product the client will be happy with; that's not a problem and it's the contractor's job to ask the right questions. But when you see a job like "I need a website. Plz replie", just move on. If they can't be bothered, then neither can I.

 

Payment method not verified Sign either of a first-time user or a scammer. If the unverified user is overly familiar with the way oDesk works...warning! If it's a first time user, you may well have to do some unofficial oDesk support and talk them through it. And you might still get scammed at the end.

 

Anything where you have to create a user account on another site (that isn't the site you're working on) before you start. No. Just no.

 

Business plan with failure built in As a webdesigner, I hear 10 plans for world domination before breakfast. Some job descriptions have fail built into the very fabric of the scheme. The worst ones are the ones where you have to mess around with NDAs and soothe the buyer that you're not going to be over the horizon with his masterplan (which often as not turns out to be another bloody facebook or youtube clone). *sigh*

 

Jobs where 'clients' are mentioned I don't really like sub-sub contracting. Firstly there's there's the thought of the buyer sitting on his arse collecting cash for my work; which rankles a bit. Secondly -and more important- is the 'Chinese Whisper Effect'; where the original client's specs is filtered through the middleman's idea of what the end-client wants. These specs may well not be accurate. You *will* be doing extra work because of this. The same applies to large companies where an underling has been given the task and is now offloading it onto you; but in this case the specs are more often written down. The worse case in this latter scenario can be where it's a committee and everyone present has to get a design change in there -no matter how pointless- just to get their name in the minutes of the meeting.

 

"It will only take 5 minutes" No it won't. No job in the history of contracting has ever taken only 5 minutes. It takes longer than that to liase with the potential client, for a start.

 

Jobs that aren't worth it ((Your hourly rate) * (Number of hours you think it will take)) + (Say 10% safety margin for extra missions/unexplained bits) = (Your price for the job). If there's not enough money or not enough time, then it's usually best to move on.

 

Anything that mentions CAPTCHA or removing watermarks It's naughty. Don't.

 

Web scraping Nah. Probably illegal (copyright) and definitely immoral. You're stealing someone else's work. Worse...you're automating stealing someone else's work.

 

Jobs where it looks like a reasonable budget for the job until you read the description and it turns out that the budget is a monthly wage for full-time work of the same type This is annoying and wastes time.

 

Non-profit organisation (Thanks Mahesh!) A non-profit organisation is not the same thing as a charity. Some are, of course, but some are tax dodges, some are for groups of people, with the aim of the organisation being something you don't necessarily approve of..."Mothers in support of the ruthless oppression of Brits in Spain"; "White supremacy"; "Black supremacy"; whatever. Or -as Mahesh points out- it could just be weasel-wording for the fact that they haven't made any money.

 

Buyers asking for free work samples/tests (Thanks Anna!) It is the buyer's right to ask, just as it is your right to refuse. It's also discouraged by oDesk. All the veteran contractors (including me) will advise against free samples and in any case that's what your portfolio is for...to show previous examples of work and the standard that you're capable of. For contractors it just is not worth it...if there's 30 applicants to the job, you're spending time doing work for a 1 in 30 chance of getting a job. You can spend your entire life doing this and not make a penny. Now that I've said all that, a free sample is what landed me my first job on oDesk...someone wanted a graphic vector conversion and -having some free time- I just did it and sent an (unusable) sample graphic in. The buyer didn't demand a sample (I would not have applied if that were the case), but I proved I could do the job by doing it. Traditionally in design work, it used to be the case that the designer offered several alternate designs; but those were for *much* larger-budget jobs. It isn't worth even considering for the sort of jobs that are at oDesk. If you do choose to give free samples, always watermark them (Thanks Ernesto!). In the case of writing samples, send them as a graphic or locked PDF so that the text can't be used without paying you.

 

Free work samples - Part II If the buyer is asking for free samples and if it's the sort of job that can be broken up into smaller tasks then pay extra attention; and also look closely at the number of people being interviewed.

 

"Great opportunity for newbies" (Thanks Judith!) This means that a buyer is offering a risably small budget for work in exchange for giving you feedback. This is either feedback blackmail or investing time in order to get in the game, depending upon your point of view. You are definitely being taken advantage of; but really it's your decision...as long as you go into it with your eyes open and as long as it's all agreed at the start. Buyers trying to use feedback to change the terms after the job has started, however, should be reported.

 

Vague specifications (Thanks Louis!) It's harder to work with vague specifications, mostly, but you see quite a lot of jobs with insufficient detail. If you're extremely lucky, it's a buyer who wants this Thing to perform this Function; is busy; has correctly assessed your level of competence; and trusts you to get 'er done. This is rare. It is, however, also difficult to write job descriptions with exactly the right amount of detail. Insufficient detail could be due to laziness; unfamiliarity with the oDesk system; lack of knowledge (which is after all why the buyer is getting a professional in)...lots of reasons. The best way of approaching this -I believe- is to use the application letter and interview to clear up any ambiguities and to focus in on the specs so that you and the client both agree on what the job actually is and where the boundaries are. If you start the job and only have a vague idea of what the client wants, you are going to have problems. Possibly big problems if the job description also states...

 

Unlimited redo A job description containing these words should be approached with caution. Particularly with website work, as you're essentially agreeing to maintain it forever as part of the deal. Add a bit of mission creep to a contract like this and you're in a world of hurt. I always specify 'reasonable amount of re-do' in the cover letter. It's a contract and you should never agree to something that can suck up an infinite amount of your time for free. I understand that buyers want their work the way they want it and the 'unlimited' is mostly just a way of ensuring that their needs will be met. You, the contractor, also needs to ensure that you're covered, so best to renegotiate this phrase.

 

"Send us ID" This is not needed to work at oDesk. Don't do it or you will be very sorry. Verify who you are through oDesk, if you must, but ***NEVER*** send ID; bank account details, PayPal, eBay or any other information that can be used by ID-theft types.

 

Write to me outside of odesk This isn't necessarily a problem...everyone has their preferred methods of communication. At the first hint of paying outside of oDesk you should run away quickly: It's against oDesk rules; will get your account terminated if you're caught; and you will probably get stiffed by the buyer anyway.

 

Phishing (Thanks Santos!) The way this works is that someone sends you a link (usually an obscured one like "http://bit.ly/whatever"). This takes you to a page that *looks like* a login page to a common internet service (Gmail, Paypal, Amazon, whatever), but isn't. What the page is, is a copy of that login screen and the idea is that you type your password in and it gets captured by naughty people. It's then standard practice to use that email/username/password on lots of other common services to see if they work. If you 1) fall for it and 2) use the same password everywhere, you're stuffed. Don't trust an obscured link; and ALWAYS check the URL on a login screen, just to make sure you're in the place you think you are. Personally, I go a little further than that and keep a link with my (encrypted) password file and I only use my local link to visit web services.

 

Good luck out there!

977 REPLIES 977

They are called employers too; aren't they? Yeah, we can make oDesk's confusing renaming of terms work for us. For my next contract, I shall demand some pyjamas upfront. With penguins on. Or possibly meerkats.
expuser
Community Member

[quote=Anna P.]returning tonight from the weekend trip to Uranus.[/quote] As long as its not mine. BTW why you always have to bring my name up in ur book-like posts???

Fame is so fickle - flaunt it while you have got it 😉

hmm
wilkinsonrichard
Community Member

What I need to get me out of my pyjamas is not for open discussion on this or any other forum :-0 But then again, I am not a "work at home guy hanging out in pyjamas" - I manage to control myself better than that :-0 However, I do think Darren's suggestion of an upfront payment of a pair of pyjamas for all future contracts does warrant serious consideration by the powers-that-be. Definite potential here for solving the "minimum wage" and the "free test" problems - no free samples until you give me a free pair of pyjamas - must put that in my cover letter - penguins optional of course.

This is the internet. Maybe we can get them to send us a picture of pajamas.
expuser
Community Member

[quote=Anna P.]And of course, I am also sure Uranus is not owned by you.[/quote] Oh it is, sister.
jnubla
Community Member

*bumping up* :bigsmile --- Citizens of the Philippines are called Filipinos, not Philippians
expuser
Community Member

Thanks Darren! It was sincere and helpful! Really liked it! 🙂
zansari
Community Member

very nice work Daren. That's the real post. VOTED
Best Wishes Zulqarnain Ansari (Zain)
fionamckay
Community Member

Another one of my pet peeves is the number of people demanding "perfect" English when their own leaves a lot to be desired. (Usually these are small budget jobs as well.) One ad made hardly any sense at all. Now, I do know that these guys are hiring someone because they don't have the skills but I do wonder how they plan to check "perfect" English. Anyhow, maybe that's just me being a pain in the butt but I do think that you should take some time to spellcheck a job ad.
judithwillson
Community Member

My favourites are the ones that manage to combine being cheap and being rude in their posting - usually a combination of shouting orders, some sort of blackmail (poor feedback/ no pay if..) and a few insults about one nationality or another for good measure. Yes, if you think that is appropriate in a job advert, I really hate to think what you'd be like as a client. One actually described most of the applicants he was wanting to attract as scoundrels (as he tried to get people to work for $1 an hour). Best to avoid these, even if you are attracted by their very poorly paid jobs. Perhaps they simply don't know how to write a job posting, but if they can't manage to be respectful and professional there you wonder how they'll behave once they hire somebody.
barbarawright
Community Member

I had to do some shuffling around in my junk drawer, but I finally found my tube of superglue, so here you go - Darren's awesome post is now a sticky! Thanks Anna 🙂
"Everybody is talented, original, and has something important to say." - Brenda Ueland
mtaboclaon
Community Member

This is now a sticky!
barbarawright
Community Member

I do think this post was well-written and a very big help for many of those new to oDesk. I know if I had read something like this in the very beginning, it would have helped me tons. So, no big cake necessary - I'm just glad to see the forums doing what they were meant to do - allow people to share helpful information about oDesk. Now where did I put that superglue?? 🙂
"Everybody is talented, original, and has something important to say." - Brenda Ueland
expuser
Community Member

:bigsmile:
cothridge
Community Member

this is a great piece
blogaholic
Community Member

Thanks for the great tips. Unfortunately, I read this too late. A big big employer got me to take a non-paid test. With such high scores, I progressed to the trial phase where I was given an assignment that will pay me only when I complete it and get hired for the job. Blinded by the high hourly rate that they flashed, I did a comprehensive policy and procedure that I am certain will pass ISO standards as part of the assignment. After a few days, I get the regret letter. . . lol. And when I check their list of jobs open, the position I applied for was no longer there, yet I see no jobs ongoing under that position. Wt*? And I pride myself in being intelligent . . . remind me not to get fooled twice please.
leeu
Community Member

Don't be get fooled next time.....
florenbernardo
Community Member

Darren, my only comment is control yourself don't fight back just avoid them. You have already made the warnings and its up to us to try to defend ourselves on whatever is coming. Merry Christmas and a Very Happy and Prosperous New Year.

Very kind of you to say so, but I hardly ever get proactive and almost always do just avoid scammers...there will be another one along in a moment anyway. No point ordering the tide not to come in... I try not to be a cnut.
justinmorison
Community Member

I highly suggest all artists re-read the oDesk contract that goes into play when your hired for a job. All artists have no creative rights and moral rights and everything created no matter the budget or requirements is then transfered to employer. Having spoken with oDesk live chat...For example if an employer requires a character to be designed for an illustration or advertisment for website, having paid for that character they can later on take that character and resell it, create a brandable/trademark entitiy, etc with out including the original artist. Every project listed is work for hire whether it's advertised as or not. Thanks, Justin
tgano
Community Member

Oh my gosh Darren...you nailed it! I agree with 100% of what you posted here and have run into and avoided many of the scenarios you have mentioned. Thanks for saying what so many of us know to be true. 🙂
leeu
Community Member

Yeah, I really appraciated all you have said. It is all true. What matters is most newbie contractors must have the initiative of reading forums like this. It is a great help. I am sure. Many thanks!
kutevonn
Community Member

Thanks for this submission. I signed on to oDesk late December 2011 and it is proving quite difficult to get that first break. Already I can identify with a lot of what you have reported. For example I was invited to do an interview where I was asked to proofread not one but two samples (250-270 words). So to prove my worth I said yes and in less than an hour I was able to send back the edits. A few hours later my application was denied. Why? Because my bid was too high. I am saying to myself if that is the case - don't ask me to do a sample and if so ask me if I am willing to negotiate. I was not overly upset because I wanted to prove myself but I was very annoyed that maybe (and this is a big maybe) the buyer was undermining the system. When I looked at the large amount of persons that was being interviewed I could only imagine the free service that was being given to that buyer if each person was asked to proofread two samples. Therefore this forum allows us "newbies" to identify the red flags and to stay clear of certain situations. Thanks
louisduncan
Community Member

As a graphic designer (though i'm sure it applies in other areas) you should be wary of clients who are vague or will give no specific answers to questions about content. Example: Client wants a full-colour, image-packed, tri-fold brochure but doesn't have any images, is unsure about what the copy should say and even worse after questioning doesn't seem to want to buy/acquire any stock images and in-fact seems to be quietly wishing that you'll just magic them up from somewhere. Or, client hands you a folder full of crumby, low-res images and expects you to magic them somehow into 300dpi. When told that the images are not suitable for print, they seem to go deftly silent or hint (even sometimes asking outright) for you to find some-more... with no extra budget. Also be sure about copy. It's not unheard of for graphic designers to write copy at times (especially for copy-lite pieces), but I would also be cautious about clients who don't seem to have anything at all, seem to lack any direction and expect you to come up with all the goods. Especially be cautious with those who not only have no content, but seem vague/unsure about what the content should be. If they give you all the materials, plus everything to work with and you feel up to it - then fine, but if not beware. Many times the lack of raw materials makes it difficult to even get started, let alone finish a project. There have been times when i've been asked to lend more than just a hand in the written side of things, which is all good and fine if I know what i'm getting myself into and if i'm being properly compensated for it. But, there have also been a couple of times (only on oDesk tbh), where i've been stranded trying to stretch content for a company that I just don't know enough about, have asked for more input/materials and been given uncertainties or palm-offs. Just be sure to clear up everything at the beginning. If their website, magazine or whatever needs content, inquire if they have that content and if not how you're going to go about acquiring it. Legally. True - this isn't something that's always necessarily clear from the Job posting. More often than not it might take a few exchanges (and a lot of what i've mentioned here comes through at interview). But, there are strong hints in the postings. Content heavy requirements and piss-poor budgets are a huge red flag. As are attachments of dodgy materials that need 're-designing'. Either-way i'm sure a few of will know what I'm talking about and hopefully someone who's unfamiliar might savvy up and save themselves some hassle.
jlyn10
Community Member

Nice one. But sometimes the contractors just don't open their eyes. Maybe they need to learn from their lessons first before they realize which job is worth applying and which is not.
embrito2008
Community Member

Nice one Darren. A must-read article! Two-thumbs up!
lakmee
Community Member

Your post really helped!
kozlowski_zoe
Community Member

Darren, Thank you for your list. I am new to oDesk, started a job per an email then they deleted the work account after quite a bit of work was done. When I went to oDesk to check the had been shut down. Live and Learn but your info has helped me loads!!!! Thanks again for taking the time to help the new oDeskers!
dbeczuk
Community Member

If it says in description "I will pay you even if I will not use your work" I had twice the bad luck of working with this type of buyers and the result is a bad score. So its up to you if you chose to work with this types of buyers. From my experience they don't know what they want and they just gathering samples from everyone. Even though this buyer has invited me to bid on his project, this means he has viewed my portfolio. And in the end after I have finished his work he gave me 4.1 stars I was forced to send him back the money just to keep my score intact.
bbautista01011
Community Member

I'm new here.. I have few candidacies and this helps a lot! Thanks..
anika_alexa
Community Member

good day everyone. this is my first time to odesk. i want to really do this on a long term basis. i did some test and i know i have many experiences when it comes to customer service for both phone and email. how long will it take for me to become at ease with this? what do i need in terms of equipment, pc or laptop model and software? thanks for helping.

Welcome to oDesk! For help getting started, you can check these How-To Guides. This help article provides more details to get yourself familiar with how oDesk works, what you need to know and its features. It is advisable to have your own PC or laptop with high-speed internet connection for you to check updates on your account regularly. You need to check your job applications everyday to make sure you don't miss any opportunity in case you get an invite for an interview. Good luck! Feel free to post here if you have any questions. 🙂
wilkinsonrichard
Community Member

[quote=Anna P.]why do I regularly get the feeling [/quote] Sorry Anna - do you really expect me to reveal everything on an open forum :-) [quote=Anna P.]it's impossible [/quote] No it is not - feed me a large piece of "stollen" and I will explain everything :-) The only thing that is impossible around here is for a contractor to get paid a decent rate. [quote=Anna P.]to have a serious talk with you[/quote] Don't go all serious on me - I am old enough to be your.......older brother:-) It may not seem like it, but us "guys" do have a very serious side, and usually our quips / horseplay / whatever do have an undercurrent or asides to some very serious matters - we have to find someway to get past the fun police (I have omitted the links just in case I get castigated for advertising or whatever the latest rule is). Darren wrote a brilliant piece in the original posting and it needs to be read by everyone (and his brother and dog) - getting people to read it is a major problem, because as sure as little brown eggs, they do not read the terms and conditions before they sound off or get scammed. Entice the punters in with "something different" and they may get to read the rest of the postings and learn something they did not expect. Another way of bumping the posting back up the list. Don't knock it sister 🙂 Leave that to the mods - they have to make a living as well (if that can ever happen here with these rates). To the poster immediately above you - I do not think the suggestion that buyers should supply pictures of pajamas as a deposit and a sign of good faith. It might lead to a mountain of postings for graphic designers who can provide free samples (enough already), and would the picture not fall into the category of "exotic art" - I am not sure of the status of that, and there has been no ruling as yet from the powers that be :-) Must dash - the men in white coats are here to take me away so I can "tilt at a few more windmills" "Fuddy Duddy" was here (apologies to Kilroy).
glimpiada
Community Member

I noticed that too, Junelle! It should be fixed, I'll contact the support team. 🙂
croute
Community Member

All so true, been there, done that. One more thing to add- you need to be cautious even for those who have good ratings, but only a few ratings. They hire you, you get the work done, they pay you, then they want to hire you for a bigger (or more) project. I've had a lot of them pay me the first time and then stiff me the next. I think some are hiring & paying to look good, then stiff a bunch of people for free work. I assume they make a new profile after that to start over again. A good rule for everyone- ask for payments along the way, say a third of the pay for a third of the work and so on. That way at least you'll get paid for the work you finish.
expuser
Community Member

I haven't added this into the list because there's no way of seeing it coming, unfortunately. Also hiring for a small test job and then moving onto a larger one is sensible behaviour from genuinely good clients. No way to tell which is which until it happens.
robric
Community Member

... write to me outside of odesk ... if they don't pay odesk, they might not pay you either ...
lalbino
Community Member

great post! there would be fewer heartbreaks here if only contractors would take the time to read this.
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