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Exp U Community Member

Job warning signs

When reading a job description, what causes you to go "Ut-oh!"? What red flags do you see in applications that at least puts you on your guard, if not actually skip to the next one? Here's some of mine (and others):

 

First and foremost The work is yours until you are paid in full. You own the copyright until you have been paid the agreed sum. If you choose to work for 15 cents per hour then that's your problem. If it takes longer than you thought..again, down to you. BUT. If you have done your bit according to the contract that you agreed, then the work is yours until it's paid for.

 

Asking for payment or to use your own accounts (Thanks Dave!) Money comes from the client to you; anything else and you're doing it wrong. Do not ever (unless you know the client really well, and give it second thoughts even then) pay for something for the client unless you have received the money from them first. Deposit for something; webhosting accounts; domain name; subscription for site X that is "essential for the job" etc etc. No money. Ever. Similarly, do not use your own eBay, Craigslist etc. accounts to list things for sale...chances are high that it will end badly and wreck any good karma you have built up there. And it'll be you in the frame if it turns out that it was illegal.

 

"Bait and Switch" (Thanks Selcalmel!) Clients advertise one job and then offer a different job at interview. Now there can be valid reasons for this; but a big difference between the job description and the work you're being offered should be viewed with extreme suspicion. Mostly on oDesk it's either jobs that you wouldn't have applied for if the job was described honestly or changing the rules to try and get the price down.

 

Too many people being interviewed This can be a sign that the buyer is dividing the job up and giving the various parts as a 'test' to applicants...with the intention of getting the job for free. It could just be that the buyer is looking for a very specific set of skills, or other innocent motive, but maybe not.

NOTE: (Thanks Brandon!) This also applies to the client's history...check the total number of jobs posted versus people hired. If there are a load of jobs posted but few contracts awarded, then proceed with caution.

 

Only low bidders being interviewed If you're not one of the low bidders on that job then it's probably not worth applying.

 

Long list of demands, silly budget We've all seen them; the jobs for an all-singing, all-dancing website for $100, followed by either a HUGE feature list and/or a long list of qualities required by the contractor. Luckily for you, the buyer is advertising the fact that they are a wanker (behaviour which is unlikely to change if you were unfortunate enough to land the contract). This buyer knows the market well enough to know exactly what they want; and must therefore know that the budget is exploitative...move on. And as a corollary to the above (Thanks Louis!):

 

People who bellow orders, often in capitals "SUCH SUCH WILL NOT BE READ I IF [insert term].... OTHERWISE I WILL DELETE YOUR APPLICATION IMMEDIATELY". Or "MUST ATTACH SUCH AND SUCH OTHERWISE YOU ARE WASTING MY TIME". Some people -presumably after watching Alan Sugar or that twat Trump- think that this is how bosses should behave. I see it mostly as a sign of either someone being new to being in a position to call the shots and is a bit insecure about it, or someone who is a natural git. In either case your job will be more difficult because of it. Also, these types of application are frequently paired with a ridiculous budget. Any buyers who are reading this should note that this isn't the way to go about things...also all capitals make it harder to read and you're increasing the chances of applicants missing an important detail. Annoying people before they've even applied for your job cannot possibly help. Am I the only one, by the way, who feels the impulse to reply in kind?: "Listen up bitch. I reckon I can do it in 10 hours which'll cost you $450 and if that isn't good enough then you can just **Edited for Community Guidelines** would be a fairly short application, probably.

 

Mention of half-finished job/previous contractor/s There are two factors here...sorting out what someone else has done often takes longer than just doing whatever it is from scratch. You will very probably be inheriting a hairy-arsed nightmare. The other factor -and a question you should be asking yourself (and the buyer, come to that)- is exactly why the previous contractor didn't finish. It does happen that buyers get a run of bad luck with contractors (often after playing in the lower budget ranges), so it isn't necessarily the buyer's fault. On the other hand, it could be. Rescuing a client from a wall-to-wall catastrophe at the 11th hour is one of the best smug feelings you can get as a freelancer; but these jobs are high-risk...you need to ascertain for yourself that the buyer is genuine before getting in too deep. A note to any buyers reading this: If you've already been through two or more contractors and you still don't have a result, you need to seriously consider throwing a match in and starting with fresh code. I've had jobs where it took significantly longer to find out what the hell the previous guys had done than it would have taken to just bin everything and do the job. And with other people's code, you can never be 100% sure that you haven't missed something important/broken/nasty.

 

One-line descriptions Buyers quite often don't know the information that a contractor needs in order to produce a final product the client will be happy with; that's not a problem and it's the contractor's job to ask the right questions. But when you see a job like "I need a website. Plz replie", just move on. If they can't be bothered, then neither can I.

 

Payment method not verified Sign either of a first-time user or a scammer. If the unverified user is overly familiar with the way oDesk works...warning! If it's a first time user, you may well have to do some unofficial oDesk support and talk them through it. And you might still get scammed at the end.

 

Anything where you have to create a user account on another site (that isn't the site you're working on) before you start. No. Just no.

 

Business plan with failure built in As a webdesigner, I hear 10 plans for world domination before breakfast. Some job descriptions have fail built into the very fabric of the scheme. The worst ones are the ones where you have to mess around with NDAs and soothe the buyer that you're not going to be over the horizon with his masterplan (which often as not turns out to be another bloody facebook or youtube clone). *sigh*

 

Jobs where 'clients' are mentioned I don't really like sub-sub contracting. Firstly there's there's the thought of the buyer sitting on his arse collecting cash for my work; which rankles a bit. Secondly -and more important- is the 'Chinese Whisper Effect'; where the original client's specs is filtered through the middleman's idea of what the end-client wants. These specs may well not be accurate. You *will* be doing extra work because of this. The same applies to large companies where an underling has been given the task and is now offloading it onto you; but in this case the specs are more often written down. The worse case in this latter scenario can be where it's a committee and everyone present has to get a design change in there -no matter how pointless- just to get their name in the minutes of the meeting.

 

"It will only take 5 minutes" No it won't. No job in the history of contracting has ever taken only 5 minutes. It takes longer than that to liase with the potential client, for a start.

 

Jobs that aren't worth it ((Your hourly rate) * (Number of hours you think it will take)) + (Say 10% safety margin for extra missions/unexplained bits) = (Your price for the job). If there's not enough money or not enough time, then it's usually best to move on.

 

Anything that mentions CAPTCHA or removing watermarks It's naughty. Don't.

 

Web scraping Nah. Probably illegal (copyright) and definitely immoral. You're stealing someone else's work. Worse...you're automating stealing someone else's work.

 

Jobs where it looks like a reasonable budget for the job until you read the description and it turns out that the budget is a monthly wage for full-time work of the same type This is annoying and wastes time.

 

Non-profit organisation (Thanks Mahesh!) A non-profit organisation is not the same thing as a charity. Some are, of course, but some are tax dodges, some are for groups of people, with the aim of the organisation being something you don't necessarily approve of..."Mothers in support of the ruthless oppression of Brits in Spain"; "White supremacy"; "Black supremacy"; whatever. Or -as Mahesh points out- it could just be weasel-wording for the fact that they haven't made any money.

 

Buyers asking for free work samples/tests (Thanks Anna!) It is the buyer's right to ask, just as it is your right to refuse. It's also discouraged by oDesk. All the veteran contractors (including me) will advise against free samples and in any case that's what your portfolio is for...to show previous examples of work and the standard that you're capable of. For contractors it just is not worth it...if there's 30 applicants to the job, you're spending time doing work for a 1 in 30 chance of getting a job. You can spend your entire life doing this and not make a penny. Now that I've said all that, a free sample is what landed me my first job on oDesk...someone wanted a graphic vector conversion and -having some free time- I just did it and sent an (unusable) sample graphic in. The buyer didn't demand a sample (I would not have applied if that were the case), but I proved I could do the job by doing it. Traditionally in design work, it used to be the case that the designer offered several alternate designs; but those were for *much* larger-budget jobs. It isn't worth even considering for the sort of jobs that are at oDesk. If you do choose to give free samples, always watermark them (Thanks Ernesto!). In the case of writing samples, send them as a graphic or locked PDF so that the text can't be used without paying you.

 

Free work samples - Part II If the buyer is asking for free samples and if it's the sort of job that can be broken up into smaller tasks then pay extra attention; and also look closely at the number of people being interviewed.

 

"Great opportunity for newbies" (Thanks Judith!) This means that a buyer is offering a risably small budget for work in exchange for giving you feedback. This is either feedback blackmail or investing time in order to get in the game, depending upon your point of view. You are definitely being taken advantage of; but really it's your decision...as long as you go into it with your eyes open and as long as it's all agreed at the start. Buyers trying to use feedback to change the terms after the job has started, however, should be reported.

 

Vague specifications (Thanks Louis!) It's harder to work with vague specifications, mostly, but you see quite a lot of jobs with insufficient detail. If you're extremely lucky, it's a buyer who wants this Thing to perform this Function; is busy; has correctly assessed your level of competence; and trusts you to get 'er done. This is rare. It is, however, also difficult to write job descriptions with exactly the right amount of detail. Insufficient detail could be due to laziness; unfamiliarity with the oDesk system; lack of knowledge (which is after all why the buyer is getting a professional in)...lots of reasons. The best way of approaching this -I believe- is to use the application letter and interview to clear up any ambiguities and to focus in on the specs so that you and the client both agree on what the job actually is and where the boundaries are. If you start the job and only have a vague idea of what the client wants, you are going to have problems. Possibly big problems if the job description also states...

 

Unlimited redo A job description containing these words should be approached with caution. Particularly with website work, as you're essentially agreeing to maintain it forever as part of the deal. Add a bit of mission creep to a contract like this and you're in a world of hurt. I always specify 'reasonable amount of re-do' in the cover letter. It's a contract and you should never agree to something that can suck up an infinite amount of your time for free. I understand that buyers want their work the way they want it and the 'unlimited' is mostly just a way of ensuring that their needs will be met. You, the contractor, also needs to ensure that you're covered, so best to renegotiate this phrase.

 

"Send us ID" This is not needed to work at oDesk. Don't do it or you will be very sorry. Verify who you are through oDesk, if you must, but ***NEVER*** send ID; bank account details, PayPal, eBay or any other information that can be used by ID-theft types.

 

Write to me outside of odesk This isn't necessarily a problem...everyone has their preferred methods of communication. At the first hint of paying outside of oDesk you should run away quickly: It's against oDesk rules; will get your account terminated if you're caught; and you will probably get stiffed by the buyer anyway.

 

Phishing (Thanks Santos!) The way this works is that someone sends you a link (usually an obscured one like "http://bit.ly/whatever"). This takes you to a page that *looks like* a login page to a common internet service (Gmail, Paypal, Amazon, whatever), but isn't. What the page is, is a copy of that login screen and the idea is that you type your password in and it gets captured by naughty people. It's then standard practice to use that email/username/password on lots of other common services to see if they work. If you 1) fall for it and 2) use the same password everywhere, you're stuffed. Don't trust an obscured link; and ALWAYS check the URL on a login screen, just to make sure you're in the place you think you are. Personally, I go a little further than that and keep a link with my (encrypted) password file and I only use my local link to visit web services.

 

Good luck out there!

981 REPLIES 981
Adam's avatar
Adam H Community Member

Great list. I would add that, if you are a native speaking, non-multilingual freelancer, you might want to be wary of job descriptions that have clearly been written by clients who barely understand your language.

 

Example:

 

"You write 3 good article. 500 word. Subject law firm. pay 15 dolar."

 

We should obviously understand that all potential clients don't speak our native language, but if clear communication is going to be a problem, it might be best to avoid.  

Renato's avatar
Renato O Community Member

This is a great list of warning signs that are on about 90% of the jobs here! Probably

Thomas's avatar
Thomas K Community Member

While we freelancers are expected to jump through hoops to be verified (I am me), clients are often effectively anonymous. Before accepting or beginning a contract, always get the client's name, address and full contact information, and ** verify it ** with a public records lookup service. I have had clients give me false mailing addresses and untracable cell phone numbers. Why? Who knows? Obviously the client is not trustworthy, but this can also potentially leave you open for tax problems.

Gwen's avatar
Gwen C Community Member

Excellent list! I've already seen most of them in my first few days, unfortunately. Luckily I've managed to avoid them...by not hearing anything from them! I guess I got lucky.

 

Sadly, for people like me who are completely new to working in general (not just freelancing), we often have to lower our standards and start off with the lowest paying jobs, or we won't get work at all! Yes, it's not the most optimistic way to see things, but a bit of realism doesn't hurt in this case.

 

Tips for other newbies:

~ Make it clear in your profile and proposals that you're new to the scene and you're looking to gain experience. Honesty is key.

~ Most of what you get at first will be experience, not necessarily money. You could get good experiences, bad experiences, or both. No matter what, you’ll learn something that can potentially help you in the future.

~ If you have qualifications and/or portfolio items, definitely list them in your profile. If not - especially if you're just a student who hasn't even got a degree yet - take as many tests as you can. They’re free and some of them are quite easy. Hide the ones that you fail or get below average in.

~ Clients are not obliged to reply to all proposals, so if you don’t hear anything within 48 hours of sending them a proposal, it’s time to look for other jobs if you haven’t already.

~ Know your limits. As an example, I’m one of the least qualified people on here (high school student, terrible at writing essays, never been in a real job before joining Upwork/oDesk) so I definitely won’t apply for something like “Ghostwriter needed for 5000 word article on nuclear physics. Must have perfect command of the English language, be available for 10 hours a day, and be able to finish the job in 3 days.”

~ Even if you’re very qualified, you still won’t get every single job that you apply for, just like in the offline “real” world.

~ Always be polite and friendly! Even if the client rejects you after a couple of messages, just thank them for their time and move on. You don’t want them to go and tell other people to avoid hiring you.

~ Try your best, no matter how little money you’re working for. The client will appreciate it in most cases. If they don’t, then it’s their loss and not yours.

~ If you find that you’ve made a mistake, correct it ASAP. If it’s the client who points out the mistake, apologize, correct it, and learn from it.

~ Last but not least, only take on as much work as you can handle! You need time to eat, sleep, and relax. You might also need to deal with other commitments.

Good luck to everyone on here!

Kim's avatar
Kim S Community Member

So, my first job offer after signing up was legitimate and great! The client is also brand new and we both seem very happy with each other. So, there I was thinking that this was the greatest thing ever.

 

My second job offer came pretty quick and it also seems like a good thing. We are currently working out the details but I think its also going to be something I'm happy with.

 

And then came the scammers. I wasn't expecting it. At first, I just raised an eyebrow and kind of went along with it. But, finally, I was so blinded by the red flags I was seeing, I withdrew a couple of my proposals. I just want to do a little screaming right now... So here I am.  Thankfully, I'm pretty sure no lasting damage was done... just a complete and total waste of my time. 

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Kim

Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

re: "While we freelancers are expected to jump through hoops to be verified (I am me), clients are often effectively anonymous. Before accepting or beginning a contract, always get the client's name, address and full contact information, and ** verify it ** with a public records lookup service."

 

????

 

What on earth for?

 

Through Upwork, I have received large amounts of money from clients. And I have never verified anything about clients. I have never googled clients. I have never had a client's full contact information. Often I don't even have their real name. Never had one client's address.

 

I don't understand where this forum participant is coming from with this advice.

 

If a client hires me on Upwork, asks me to do something, and pays me money to do it, why do I need their address?

 

Why do I need to research them on other websites? If their name doesn't show up in a particular way on a particular website outside of Upwork, does that mean that I shouldn't take a client's money? That makes no sense to me. I like clients' money.

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@Preston H wrote:

re: "While we freelancers are expected to jump through hoops to be verified (I am me), clients are often effectively anonymous. Before accepting or beginning a contract, always get the client's name, address and full contact information, and ** verify it ** with a public records lookup service."

 

????

 

What on earth for?

 

Through Upwork, I have received large amounts of money from clients. And I have never verified anything about clients. I have never googled clients. I have never had a client's full contact information. Often I don't even have their real name. Never had one client's address.

 

I don't understand where this poster is coming from with this advice.

 

If a client hires me on Upwork, asks me to do something, and pays me money to do it, why do I need their contact information?


The EU freelancers need this to issue legal invoices, to apply VAT properly and to prevent being suspected for money laundering.

Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

re: "The EU freelancers need this to issue legal invoices, to apply VAT properly and to prevent being suspected for money laundering."

 

I'm sorry to hear that EU freelancers have additional legal hurdles that they need to deal with.

 

This still doesn't explain why Thomas, who lives in the United States, said he wants full contact information, including an address, for his clients. Nor does it explain his interest in checking clients out in external lookup websites.

 

And come to think of it... I have hired dozens of contractors on Upwork, from Europe, Asia, Africa and North America. None of them ever asked for my contact info. I never gave anybody my address or phone number or email address. Just communicated via Upwork. Some contractors from India asked for my Skype ID, but I definitely did not give it to them.

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@Preston H wrote:

re: "The EU freelancers need this to issue legal invoices, to apply VAT properly and to prevent being suspected for money laundering."

 

I'm sorry to hear that EU freelancers have additional legal hurdles that they need to deal with.

 

This still doesn't explain why Thomas, who lives in the United States, said he wants full contact information, including an address, for his clients. Nor does it explain his interest in checking clients out in external lookup websites.

 

And come to think of it... I have hired dozens of contractors on Upwork, from Europe, Asia, Africa and North America. None of them ever asked for my contact info. I never gave anybody my address or phone number or email address. Just communicated via Upwork. Some contractors from India asked for my Skype ID, but I definitely did not give it to them.


Europe is not the same like EU, freelancers from EU member states have different tax laws. I would question that those from EU member states who do not need any info about their clients report their earnings properly to their tax authorities and they probably will have problems later.

Loredana's avatar
Loredana B Community Member

Margarete - you are right, Europe and EU are two different things, but regardless if a freelancer lives in a country that is a member of EU or not, still needs to declare his/her income. It's not EU that requires it, but every state's laws.

 

BUT not every EU country laws need the client's address in order for the freelancer to declare his/her income. Further more, in most cases, registered freelancers need a separate bank account for their work (that is registered accordingly), so the state can keep an eye on their income and paid/unpaid taxes.

 

In my country and in my case (registered as entrepreneur) the digital invoices offered by Upwork are enough for me to declare my income and pay my taxes every three months. I have a friend registered as company and she needs the client's address for invoices, Upwork's aren't enough.

 

In Italy, where I lived for a while, it's enough to register as a freelancer, open a separated bank account from your personal one, and pay your taxes (a percentage of last year's total income) yearly.

 

Therefor if an EU freelancer doesn't ask for a client's address or company details isn't because he/she doesn't report their earnings to tax authorities. It really comes down to both where the contractor lives and which tax payment option he/she chose. It's not a questionable action, so please don't make it sound like it is.

Cecilia's avatar
Cecilia M Community Member

Very useful tips! I wish I had read this sooner, though. All the time I spent working on those free "tests" I could've used to apply to proyects from legitimate clients. 

Mark's avatar
Mark T Community Member

Great list - very useful for a newbie like me. Only been on here for a few months.

 

Mark

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This "client" asks for CVs. His job offer is about translation, budget: 5 USD. Let his history speak for itself:

 

About the Client
Payment Method Not Verified

65 Jobs Posted
0% Hire Rate, 2 Open Jobs

Member Since Jun 2, 2015 

 

Why are those "clients" not weeded out? Woman Mad

Lena's avatar
Lena E Community Member

Clients with a low hire rate and low feedback scores are not beneficial to the Upwork platform and we understand your hesitancy to apply to these jobs. Our teams are continuously working to rid the platform of “bad clients”. 

 

Last month, we warned a few hundred clients and will continue to do so in future. Clients targeted include those who don't hire or pay. They typically send out hundreds of invites without hiring or hire a few freelancers without paying anyone. These practices are not in the interest of the Upwork community. So, in near future, we are going to notify and close the accounts of those who don't change their practices.

 

Additionally, we targeted clients who have received low private feedback from their freelancers. We value freelancer private feedback a lot and take action against clients who consistently receive low scores. Like the freelancer side, one or two negative feedback is tolerated, but a consistent pattern of bad experiences is not. 

 

We encourage freelancers to leave feedback on their recently ended contracts, as this provides us with a ton of valuable info on which clients are doing good and which ones are not. 

 

Thanks for sharing these jobs, hopefully you will notice a difference soon.

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@Lena E wrote:

Clients with a low hire rate and low feedback scores are not beneficial to the Upwork platform and we understand your hesitancy to apply to these jobs. Our teams are continuously working to rid the platform of “bad clients”. 

 

Last month, we warned a few hundred clients and will continue to do so in future. Clients targeted include those who don't hire or pay. They typically send out hundreds of invites without hiring or hire a few freelancers without paying anyone. These practices are not in the interest of the Upwork community. So, in near future, we are going to notify and close the accounts of those who don't change their practices.

 

Additionally, we targeted clients who have received low private feedback from their freelancers. We value freelancer private feedback a lot and take action against clients who consistently receive low scores. Like the freelancer side, one or two negative feedback is tolerated, but a consistent pattern of bad experiences is not. 

 

We encourage freelancers to leave feedback on their recently ended contracts, as this provides us with a ton of valuable info on which clients are doing good and which ones are not. 

 

Thanks for sharing these jobs, hopefully you will notice a difference soon.


Lena, this is a really good first step. Suitable options to report such clients should be made available. Also clients who offer unacceptable low budgets (for example 30 USD for the translation of a book) should be weeded out (there are a lot of them).

Gaya's avatar
Gaya L Community Member

Not sure what the person motive to
keep posting jobs unless he is getting sample work. What you wrote is true. thanks
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@Gaya L wrote:
Not sure what the person motive to
keep posting jobs unless he is getting sample work. What you wrote is true. thanks

At least he/she can collect a lot of personal data. 

Syed's avatar
Syed R Community Member

May be the sample work is the one he/she wanted and got it for free. I think so its an exploitation of freelancers.
Alpha's avatar
Alpha C Community Member

Hi. I met this new client on Upwork. The name is **Edited for Community Guidelines**. I wrote for her 10 articles. She did not pay me for the 10 articles. We did not agree on the next term as I can't commit on the next proposal she offers. The 10 articles that are already submitted, she said she will not pay it.

Nichola's avatar
Nichola L Community Member


@Alpha C wrote:

Hi. I met this new client on Upwork. The name is vivain veloso. I wrote for her 10 articles. She did not pay me for the 10 articles. We did not agree on the next term as I can't commit on the next proposal she offers. The 10 articles that are already submitted, she said she will not pay it.


 

If it was a fixed-rate job and escrow has been paid for the first milestone, then you should get paid if you have delivered the work and asked for the money to be released. If escrow was not funded, then you are not likely to get paid, and Upwork can't help you - except that you can report the client to CS.

 

If the job was on an hourly basis and you were using the tracker, then you should get paid for the work you have done. If you entered the hours manually, Upwork can't intervene.

 

Delwar's avatar
Delwar H Community Member

If it was a fixed priced job, why did you start working until your client funded the amount agreed for milestone? 

 

 

Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

Honestly, if you didn't know this person... meaning, you had not worked with her before... why did you send you ten articles without ever having been paid by her?

 

I would have agreed to a milestone of one article, for one-tenth of the money.

 

That way she can get an example of the kind of article you would write, to make sure it fits her needs.

 

She thinks she's testing you. But secretly, you're testing her to see if she is trustworthy.

 

If you sent one article and she paid for it, you could write more and send her more.

 

If she didn't pay you promptly for the first article, you would know she can't be trusted and you would not have spent time writing the remaining 9 articles.

Craig's avatar
Craig A Community Member

Unfortunately, there is no Upwork protection if the milestone was not funded.

 

You can start the work before it is funded, or before the payment method is verified. That is entirely up to you.

However, if you do decide to take that chance, you need to protect yourself by not submitting the work until it is funded.

 

Also, your post will be edited by a moderator very soon for violating Community Guidelines.

Alpha's avatar
Alpha C Community Member

I'm new here, I've read that term or rule when I've already finished writing the articles. I know I'm so idiot. I've reported this client to customer service with a screenshot of our dialogue. I think there's nothing much I can do, maybe I will just charge this to experience.

Craig's avatar
Craig A Community Member

If you learn from it, it will be more valuable to you than whatever the client would have paid you for the ten articles.

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