🐈
» Forums » New to Upwork » Job warning signs
Page options
expuser
Community Member

Job warning signs

When reading a job description, what causes you to go "Ut-oh!"? What red flags do you see in applications that at least puts you on your guard, if not actually skip to the next one? Here's some of mine (and others):

 

First and foremost The work is yours until you are paid in full. You own the copyright until you have been paid the agreed sum. If you choose to work for 15 cents per hour then that's your problem. If it takes longer than you thought..again, down to you. BUT. If you have done your bit according to the contract that you agreed, then the work is yours until it's paid for.

 

Asking for payment or to use your own accounts (Thanks Dave!) Money comes from the client to you; anything else and you're doing it wrong. Do not ever (unless you know the client really well, and give it second thoughts even then) pay for something for the client unless you have received the money from them first. Deposit for something; webhosting accounts; domain name; subscription for site X that is "essential for the job" etc etc. No money. Ever. Similarly, do not use your own eBay, Craigslist etc. accounts to list things for sale...chances are high that it will end badly and wreck any good karma you have built up there. And it'll be you in the frame if it turns out that it was illegal.

 

"Bait and Switch" (Thanks Selcalmel!) Clients advertise one job and then offer a different job at interview. Now there can be valid reasons for this; but a big difference between the job description and the work you're being offered should be viewed with extreme suspicion. Mostly on oDesk it's either jobs that you wouldn't have applied for if the job was described honestly or changing the rules to try and get the price down.

 

Too many people being interviewed This can be a sign that the buyer is dividing the job up and giving the various parts as a 'test' to applicants...with the intention of getting the job for free. It could just be that the buyer is looking for a very specific set of skills, or other innocent motive, but maybe not.

NOTE: (Thanks Brandon!) This also applies to the client's history...check the total number of jobs posted versus people hired. If there are a load of jobs posted but few contracts awarded, then proceed with caution.

 

Only low bidders being interviewed If you're not one of the low bidders on that job then it's probably not worth applying.

 

Long list of demands, silly budget We've all seen them; the jobs for an all-singing, all-dancing website for $100, followed by either a HUGE feature list and/or a long list of qualities required by the contractor. Luckily for you, the buyer is advertising the fact that they are a wanker (behaviour which is unlikely to change if you were unfortunate enough to land the contract). This buyer knows the market well enough to know exactly what they want; and must therefore know that the budget is exploitative...move on. And as a corollary to the above (Thanks Louis!):

 

People who bellow orders, often in capitals "SUCH SUCH WILL NOT BE READ I IF [insert term].... OTHERWISE I WILL DELETE YOUR APPLICATION IMMEDIATELY". Or "MUST ATTACH SUCH AND SUCH OTHERWISE YOU ARE WASTING MY TIME". Some people -presumably after watching Alan Sugar or that twat Trump- think that this is how bosses should behave. I see it mostly as a sign of either someone being new to being in a position to call the shots and is a bit insecure about it, or someone who is a natural git. In either case your job will be more difficult because of it. Also, these types of application are frequently paired with a ridiculous budget. Any buyers who are reading this should note that this isn't the way to go about things...also all capitals make it harder to read and you're increasing the chances of applicants missing an important detail. Annoying people before they've even applied for your job cannot possibly help. Am I the only one, by the way, who feels the impulse to reply in kind?: "Listen up bitch. I reckon I can do it in 10 hours which'll cost you $450 and if that isn't good enough then you can just **Edited for Community Guidelines** would be a fairly short application, probably.

 

Mention of half-finished job/previous contractor/s There are two factors here...sorting out what someone else has done often takes longer than just doing whatever it is from scratch. You will very probably be inheriting a hairy-arsed nightmare. The other factor -and a question you should be asking yourself (and the buyer, come to that)- is exactly why the previous contractor didn't finish. It does happen that buyers get a run of bad luck with contractors (often after playing in the lower budget ranges), so it isn't necessarily the buyer's fault. On the other hand, it could be. Rescuing a client from a wall-to-wall catastrophe at the 11th hour is one of the best smug feelings you can get as a freelancer; but these jobs are high-risk...you need to ascertain for yourself that the buyer is genuine before getting in too deep. A note to any buyers reading this: If you've already been through two or more contractors and you still don't have a result, you need to seriously consider throwing a match in and starting with fresh code. I've had jobs where it took significantly longer to find out what the hell the previous guys had done than it would have taken to just bin everything and do the job. And with other people's code, you can never be 100% sure that you haven't missed something important/broken/nasty.

 

One-line descriptions Buyers quite often don't know the information that a contractor needs in order to produce a final product the client will be happy with; that's not a problem and it's the contractor's job to ask the right questions. But when you see a job like "I need a website. Plz replie", just move on. If they can't be bothered, then neither can I.

 

Payment method not verified Sign either of a first-time user or a scammer. If the unverified user is overly familiar with the way oDesk works...warning! If it's a first time user, you may well have to do some unofficial oDesk support and talk them through it. And you might still get scammed at the end.

 

Anything where you have to create a user account on another site (that isn't the site you're working on) before you start. No. Just no.

 

Business plan with failure built in As a webdesigner, I hear 10 plans for world domination before breakfast. Some job descriptions have fail built into the very fabric of the scheme. The worst ones are the ones where you have to mess around with NDAs and soothe the buyer that you're not going to be over the horizon with his masterplan (which often as not turns out to be another bloody facebook or youtube clone). *sigh*

 

Jobs where 'clients' are mentioned I don't really like sub-sub contracting. Firstly there's there's the thought of the buyer sitting on his arse collecting cash for my work; which rankles a bit. Secondly -and more important- is the 'Chinese Whisper Effect'; where the original client's specs is filtered through the middleman's idea of what the end-client wants. These specs may well not be accurate. You *will* be doing extra work because of this. The same applies to large companies where an underling has been given the task and is now offloading it onto you; but in this case the specs are more often written down. The worse case in this latter scenario can be where it's a committee and everyone present has to get a design change in there -no matter how pointless- just to get their name in the minutes of the meeting.

 

"It will only take 5 minutes" No it won't. No job in the history of contracting has ever taken only 5 minutes. It takes longer than that to liase with the potential client, for a start.

 

Jobs that aren't worth it ((Your hourly rate) * (Number of hours you think it will take)) + (Say 10% safety margin for extra missions/unexplained bits) = (Your price for the job). If there's not enough money or not enough time, then it's usually best to move on.

 

Anything that mentions CAPTCHA or removing watermarks It's naughty. Don't.

 

Web scraping Nah. Probably illegal (copyright) and definitely immoral. You're stealing someone else's work. Worse...you're automating stealing someone else's work.

 

Jobs where it looks like a reasonable budget for the job until you read the description and it turns out that the budget is a monthly wage for full-time work of the same type This is annoying and wastes time.

 

Non-profit organisation (Thanks Mahesh!) A non-profit organisation is not the same thing as a charity. Some are, of course, but some are tax dodges, some are for groups of people, with the aim of the organisation being something you don't necessarily approve of..."Mothers in support of the ruthless oppression of Brits in Spain"; "White supremacy"; "Black supremacy"; whatever. Or -as Mahesh points out- it could just be weasel-wording for the fact that they haven't made any money.

 

Buyers asking for free work samples/tests (Thanks Anna!) It is the buyer's right to ask, just as it is your right to refuse. It's also discouraged by oDesk. All the veteran contractors (including me) will advise against free samples and in any case that's what your portfolio is for...to show previous examples of work and the standard that you're capable of. For contractors it just is not worth it...if there's 30 applicants to the job, you're spending time doing work for a 1 in 30 chance of getting a job. You can spend your entire life doing this and not make a penny. Now that I've said all that, a free sample is what landed me my first job on oDesk...someone wanted a graphic vector conversion and -having some free time- I just did it and sent an (unusable) sample graphic in. The buyer didn't demand a sample (I would not have applied if that were the case), but I proved I could do the job by doing it. Traditionally in design work, it used to be the case that the designer offered several alternate designs; but those were for *much* larger-budget jobs. It isn't worth even considering for the sort of jobs that are at oDesk. If you do choose to give free samples, always watermark them (Thanks Ernesto!). In the case of writing samples, send them as a graphic or locked PDF so that the text can't be used without paying you.

 

Free work samples - Part II If the buyer is asking for free samples and if it's the sort of job that can be broken up into smaller tasks then pay extra attention; and also look closely at the number of people being interviewed.

 

"Great opportunity for newbies" (Thanks Judith!) This means that a buyer is offering a risably small budget for work in exchange for giving you feedback. This is either feedback blackmail or investing time in order to get in the game, depending upon your point of view. You are definitely being taken advantage of; but really it's your decision...as long as you go into it with your eyes open and as long as it's all agreed at the start. Buyers trying to use feedback to change the terms after the job has started, however, should be reported.

 

Vague specifications (Thanks Louis!) It's harder to work with vague specifications, mostly, but you see quite a lot of jobs with insufficient detail. If you're extremely lucky, it's a buyer who wants this Thing to perform this Function; is busy; has correctly assessed your level of competence; and trusts you to get 'er done. This is rare. It is, however, also difficult to write job descriptions with exactly the right amount of detail. Insufficient detail could be due to laziness; unfamiliarity with the oDesk system; lack of knowledge (which is after all why the buyer is getting a professional in)...lots of reasons. The best way of approaching this -I believe- is to use the application letter and interview to clear up any ambiguities and to focus in on the specs so that you and the client both agree on what the job actually is and where the boundaries are. If you start the job and only have a vague idea of what the client wants, you are going to have problems. Possibly big problems if the job description also states...

 

Unlimited redo A job description containing these words should be approached with caution. Particularly with website work, as you're essentially agreeing to maintain it forever as part of the deal. Add a bit of mission creep to a contract like this and you're in a world of hurt. I always specify 'reasonable amount of re-do' in the cover letter. It's a contract and you should never agree to something that can suck up an infinite amount of your time for free. I understand that buyers want their work the way they want it and the 'unlimited' is mostly just a way of ensuring that their needs will be met. You, the contractor, also needs to ensure that you're covered, so best to renegotiate this phrase.

 

"Send us ID" This is not needed to work at oDesk. Don't do it or you will be very sorry. Verify who you are through oDesk, if you must, but ***NEVER*** send ID; bank account details, PayPal, eBay or any other information that can be used by ID-theft types.

 

Write to me outside of odesk This isn't necessarily a problem...everyone has their preferred methods of communication. At the first hint of paying outside of oDesk you should run away quickly: It's against oDesk rules; will get your account terminated if you're caught; and you will probably get stiffed by the buyer anyway.

 

Phishing (Thanks Santos!) The way this works is that someone sends you a link (usually an obscured one like "http://bit.ly/whatever"). This takes you to a page that *looks like* a login page to a common internet service (Gmail, Paypal, Amazon, whatever), but isn't. What the page is, is a copy of that login screen and the idea is that you type your password in and it gets captured by naughty people. It's then standard practice to use that email/username/password on lots of other common services to see if they work. If you 1) fall for it and 2) use the same password everywhere, you're stuffed. Don't trust an obscured link; and ALWAYS check the URL on a login screen, just to make sure you're in the place you think you are. Personally, I go a little further than that and keep a link with my (encrypted) password file and I only use my local link to visit web services.

 

Good luck out there!

977 REPLIES 977

Milestones is bit more safer with escrow. I don't want to speak about starting fixed job with payment after they do test and being accepted. "Don't die horse for green green grass". About milestones project that I have once had 5 phases. I've finish 3 and get paid. Later I finish 4th and done quite of 5th while they checking 4th they quit the project. Support didn't release the funds for 4th as not accepted and part that I've done in 5th ofcourse not. The rest of escrow money were return. Who lost here time=money? So be careful. Thx
jayk_geek888
Community Member

hello guys. I'm just a newbie here at odesk, luckily i got my first job and was hired, but it came to my hesitation when i read about this note "Important note before we start: If it doesn't say 'Job In Progress' in your 'My Jobs > Contracts' section then you're not hired...any work you do is very much at your own risk." I tried to check from "MY Jobs >Contracts" section but it never says "JOB IN PROGRESS" It is a fixed price contract. Can anyone give me some advice. Thanks in advance.
jaykgeek

Please always remember not to start working on a project until you have received a notification that your contract has begun. Without a contract, the client has no way to pay you! Always confirm your contract is active in My Jobs > Contracts. Once the contract has been awarded to you and you've began working on it, you'll see a 'Job in progress' on your profile. I would suggest you contact your client to clarify if he/she has already assigned the contract to you. How to Win Your First oDesk Job blog post has some great tips for newbies like you. Good luck! 🙂

[quote=Jayson Supsup]hello guys. I'm just a newbie here at odesk, luckily i got my first job and was hired, but it came to my hesitation when i read about this note "Important note before we start: If it doesn't say 'Job In Progress' in your 'My Jobs > Contracts' section then you're not hired...any work you do is very much at your own risk." I tried to check from "MY Jobs >Contracts" section but it never says "JOB IN PROGRESS" It is a fixed price contract. Can anyone give me some advice. Thanks in advance.[/quote] When you checked, did you see the contract? If so, then you have been officially hired. It will only show on your profile (job in progress) when you have earned $1. You have to start working for it to say job in progress. ["MY Jobs >Contracts" section]>You will never see job in progress here.
mmorabe
Community Member

I totally agree with you there, Anna :-). A million thanks, Darren..
cothridge
Community Member

Its pretty insightful
ehonrajr
Community Member

Thanks for reminding us! I've always noticed their tricks. Thanks for this Blog. To my fellow contractors, NO TO FREE WORK SAMPLES! always place your WATERMARK!
daverobinson
Community Member

One flag for me is when a prospective client expects me to spend money on their job. i don't mind having to pay for the tools of my trade, but as a writer, I avoid any jobs that ask me to purchase or source things for the client (particularly images).

The elephant in the room! Can't believe I forgot that! Thanks. Sourcing images is OK if you're being paid for it... http://sxc.hu
j_lawton
Community Member

First of all thank for this warning signs topic, it's very informative. I just wanted to say "look before you leap".... I've noticed several jobs advertised (fixed payment) which if you take the time to investigate a little are very likely impossible to complete to the client's satisfaction because of too many demands, time constraints or vague instructions even shifting the goal posts after work has commenced. It's tempting for an oDesk newbie to accept a low paid job for the sake of feedback, but getting involved with a dubious client could cost you a lot of time better spent on tests or polishing your profile. Warning signs?... I would say be wary of clients who almost exclusively hire new members, ask for samples, always pay fixed-price (small figures) and who want to negotiate a much lower price than the figure mentioned in their job description.

I can't believe the gull of some people asking for 1500-2000 word samples - I mean... you call that a sample? And, contractors really under-bidding - lower than 50% the estimated budget. I can see 10% but not more. What is going on?
joeknapp
Community Member

Need simple Excel ,I just need a quick analysis of the attached data. Anytime they use the word simple, stay away. If it was Simple, they would do it themselves.
j_lawton
Community Member

Absolutely! There are more than a few "little Hitlers" operating micro-businesses who seem to be on some kind of an ego-trip and who fail to realize the difference between a contractor and a slave. In order to avoid becoming entangled with a toxic client I would recommend not immediately accepting a contract, but instead spending time on a bit of back and forth correspondence. This should allow you to get "a feel" for the client and if alarm bells start ringing you know what to do... just walk away.
bhacksterr
Community Member

Thanks for the effort in putting this all up. It definitely helps! By the way, I applied to this job posting and received this kind of reply: THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST TO WORK WITH US HERE I MENTION LINK FOR YAHOO AND GMAIL ANY OF EMAIL YOU ARE USING JUST GO THRU THAT LINK AND CAN SEE OUR SAMPLES AND REQUIREMENT THEN PLEASE COME BACK TO US THANKS AND HERE IS THE LINKS. FOR YAHOO http://tinyurl.com/bwp3w8r FOR GMAIL http://tinyurl.com/74kxhhh For safety purposes, I just copy-pasted the link instead of clicking on it. The links led me to Yahoo and Gmail sign-in pages. What do you think this is all about? Thanks, Santos

I think its a way of tricking you to give them your login and password.

No, they were phising site, for sure. Google and Yahoo login pages were copied and put on the phish site. The real url that you were at was not either one, but http://!@#$A321.net23.net/ Change link to show invalid. Always check your address bar for correct addy in there. ------- Went back and reread your post. Now how are they going to get your email to send you info in the first place to send any info? They know nothing about you.

Thanks! I experience the same thing: FOR GMAIL www.oznet.sitex.us FOR YAHOO www.munet.sitex.us
ltolentino
Community Member

Thanks for posting this, Darren. Very well said. Honestly, I had experienced some of these during my first months in odesk. I learned my lesson, however. Some buyers take advantage of contractors' skills and talents and make the sample work their own.
migriffinsr
Community Member

As a buyer I want to develop a good working relationship with contractors. Unfortunately, one could easily do something "red flag" without realizing the gravity of their mistake. This post has educated me in some "good practices" to maintain as I integrate with this community. Cheers!
imad_ulmajid
Community Member

hey WELL WRITTEN and its true 😄

I'm staring web page with all Job signs. Regards
lola260570
Community Member

They give a price for fixed or hourly jobs, but turn on they are only commission based jobs. Do me a favor, don't even look at those jobs. 🙂
melai137
Community Member

Thanks for this list of warnings, it really helps me... because I already experience 1 of the examples out there.
ozgey
Community Member

I read through this thread for the first 2 pages and forgive me if it's been said already. For lack of time to read it all at this time, I just want to include here that you be careful when asked for your CV when most of your relevant information is listed on your profile. Your identity and background might be used for purposes that are uncalled for. Maybe I am being paranoid, some might say, but it's an impression you get all together from a prospective client and the way they interact with you - at least it's how it happened in my experience. Unfortunately, the scammers have become so good.
e-mouse
Community Member

I agree, Ozge, that's good advice. I think that what is posted on your profile should be more than enough information for a prospective employer. That's what's great about this site...you share your skills, but retain a degree of anonymity.
lditomasso
Community Member

I'm not being paranoid - just cautious! Thanks for the reminder. If there is someone that really wants to hire me - it will be after we have a few assignments together. And that's when they get my C.V.
hendersonsue
Community Member

Darren your list describes every job I have applied for on oDesk....I have applied for over 100 jobs on this board with no results. Looks like this site is either a clearing house for scammers or people wanting work but not wanting to pay for it.
expuser
Community Member

That pretty much sums it up. I had the same thoughts now I know I am in line with what's really going on. Especially people that want "massive" amounts of work done and don't want to pay a dime to get the job done. I love the statement "simple job" and the long and extensive time consuming list of duties that follow. My thought is this: if it's that simple, why aren't you doing it?
gitali
Community Member

The other day, I saw a job posting where the hourly rate is $1, including oDesk fee and the client wants 3 person to work in that price. I was outraged. How can anyone even think of posting something like that. Is there a way to report such stuff?

Nope. That's life on oDesk.
expuser
Community Member

It is against oDesk policy to name anyone; however, there is a client that seems to be phishing. It may be they are simply using oDesk contractors for market research; either way, I do not have time for that. Refer to Darren's great warning above. A hint: the client is posting multiple jobs and requesting a long series of steps before hiring. It begins on the main job: "If interested, please bid & answer the following questions: - What is your English education/experience? - Is English your native language? - How many hours can you work a week? - Can you start immediately?"
natashiah
Community Member

Thank God for that warning...almost everyone asked for samples of my stories...next time I will politely tell them to check my portfolio.

Yes, check my portfolio - you are being vague with your job posting. Most people don't say anything about what kind of writing they are looking for and ask for samples. You're right - check my portfolio and we should all do this unless you want to be more specific as to what you want as a sample.
cabural_novelyn
Community Member

This is my first time reading the community forum. I am a newbie in Odesk and I became a victim on one of those warnings. Thanks for this listings I learned a lot. I really love it...<3 ❤️ <3...more power for us contractors...

• What is your age? (we will require a copy of your driver’s license, identification card or passport) There are big Saudi's company here on oDesk with 500 employees where first encountered request of ID or passport. Now seeing in other companies jobs, despite there is clear status on your profile "Verified" I've reported such cases many times but got just this by oDesk: We suggest you not proceed with the application if you are uncomfortable with the requirements given. How can I be comfortable or anyone here be comfortable with. I would like to see if oDesk employees are comfortable give their driver’s license, identification card or passport to some blog site, facebook,...(want to make parallel to job vacancy response email) Should be put in oDesk policy right away as it breaking the laws in many countries especially about personal privacy and neutrality towards gender,age, rase, religion...of employee.
vaughndumas
Community Member

Hi I had one today. Needed a developer but gave a full assignment specification I had to do (would have taken about 3 days). Someone needed me to write their uni paper for them (for free). They "might" consider me for a longer term contract after that. The language in the email was unprofessional and in the spec totally different. Watch out for these.
rfaruque
Community Member

It's great to have a long list which all new contractors face at first. Thanks Darren to share these altogether. I faced some of these problems. Now I learned a lot of these. I recommend all new contractors to go through this page.
monsgakin
Community Member

Thanks Darren, As a new person on odesk, you can easily fall into anything (most of which you have highlighted) Great post! Monica.
rahman_matiur
Community Member

Your task is obviously remarkable, I am agree with your tips.
evilsquirrel01
Community Member

Thank you for this
Latest Articles
Featured Topics
Learning Paths