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Location Work - Violation of Terms of Service or Not?

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Community Guru
Steven E. L Member Since: May 5, 2015
21 of 31

See this thread including the second response from Vladimir.

 

I interpret, "... Certain on-location activities are not allowed to be advertised on Upwork ..." as referring to the **Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Assuming the contract is legit and the exchange of funds is compliant, you're fine. The help desk doesn't know what they're talking about.

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Community Guru
Kathryn B Member Since: Jul 22, 2015
22 of 31

@Steven E. L wrote:

See this thread including the second response from Vladimir.

 

I interpret, "... Certain on-location activities are not allowed to be advertised on Upwork ..." as referring to the **Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Assuming the contract is legit and the exchange of funds is compliant, you're fine. The help desk doesn't know what they're talking about.


 I just choked on my coffee reading that.  Not because I have any aversion to such "ladies" or the "activities" they are involved with, but because I live in Nevada... two blocks from a business of interesting reputation.  Cat LOL

 

On topic: I agree that if the contract is set up and paid through UpWork, then simple tasks on-site such as printing out files to be placed in filing cabinets on-site certainly should be just fine.  As long as payment is made through UpWork then I cannot see an issue, unless perhaps it could fall under employer/employee instead of freelance.  In that case I'm pretty sure it would be subject to UpWork's payroll services instead.  Just a thought, but perhaps that is their issue with it?

~I am only here when I can tolerate having my eyes blasted, my privacy treated like a joke, and my temper pushed to it's limit. For all other times, please request alternate contact methods~
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Active Member
Hannah C Member Since: Jan 3, 2017
23 of 31

It seems as if it is a rote response not backed up by the TOS.  

 

I'm not sure that it is a payroll thing.  Contract labor typically has to do with resources and compensation more than location.

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Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
24 of 31

In the topic quoted by Steven, Vladimir wrote "Certain on-location activities are not allowed to be advertised on Upwork. That's why I made it clear our team needs to review each case separately and confirm it's in line with our ToS." So at the very least, it's inaccurate to say that any job requiring work on site violates ToS. And if there *are* jobs that are permitted off site but not on site, an example from a moderator, even if hypothetical, would be instructive.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
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Active Member
Hannah C Member Since: Jan 3, 2017
25 of 31

So now I get the response below from the help desk.  They quoted 1.2 and highlighted the sentence below.  

 

 

"1.2 USING THE SITE OTHER THAN FOR THE INTENDED PURPOSES

 

"...Advertising products or services that are outside or beyond the scope of the Upwork marketplace....."

 

I don't think it means what the help desk thinks it means.  The client would be soliciting services, so therefore not applicable in her case.  I haven't advertised any specific product or service. The work is certainly beyond the scope.  

 

Do they have anyone that knows contractual language answering these questions or are they just guessing?  They also do not have a specific definition listed for scope (defining the limitations of scope).

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Community Guru
Steven E. L Member Since: May 5, 2015
26 of 31

One would think asking the Help Desk is a good idea. Unfortunately, all they do is further compound the problem by copy and pasting bits and pieces of legal text written in language which is foreign to them. You're not going to make any progress continuing to twist that rubix cube. They are not legal scholars. They are **Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

The situation at hand is not particularly confusing. There are only two factors to consider:

 

  1. Is the work legal? If the work is illegal (drug running, prostitution, check fraud) - Full Stop. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. If the work is a legitimate, legal business task goto Step 2.
  2. Is the exchange of funds for above said work transiting through the Upwork platform? If the funds are not being exchanged on Upwork (circumvention) - Full Stop. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. If the funds are being exchanged on Upwork go get to work and fill up your piggy bank.

That's all there is to it. All the rest of this musing about contract work vs. payroll services, etc., etc., is simply a hypothetical smokescreen.

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Moderator
Vladimir G Moderator Member Since: Oct 31, 2014
27 of 31

Hi Hanna,

 

I see you received detailed responses on your ticket regarding the job post you enquired about, which was reviewed and removed for violating Upwork ToS. I also see our team followed up and outlined the exact article prohibiting the type of behaviour that was discussed between you and your client. Note that users are not allowed to post private communication in the Community so please refrain from sharing sections of our agents' responses and feel free to follow up on your ticket if you have any questions.

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Active Member
Hannah C Member Since: Jan 3, 2017
28 of 31

Vladimir, 

 

They were excellent in responding to my site issue question, no doubt about that. My repeated follow up has been in regards to the question of this thread.  I do not believe, even with this last response that they have adequately answered that.  I have read through the TOS and done word searches to see if I have glossed over anything, but have yet to find anything other than Section 10 which specifically states that Upwork does not control the location of the work.  

 

Scenario 

Client engages freelancer to enter paper ledger into electronic bookkepping system.  Client does not have a scanner and is not very techologically adept.  Client has a bag of receipts and a ledger.  Position is posted requesting a local person so that documentation may be handed over.  Option #1 - meet client receive documentation.  Option #2 give out personal address to have documents mail.  I personally would prefer Option #1.

 

Additionally, I have seen numerous postings by clients stating that they are looking for someong to work on-location. These include but are not limited to:  phtography work, IT support,, office work, and in-person translation at meetings.  Some of these are open positions and others are successfully completed, paid and reviewed positions.  There was no subterfuge in the postings, they clearly stated outright what the need was for the position.  Most do not appear to be scams and are often posted by long term clients of the site.  

 

If this is such a prohibition, why are these positions posted?  Why have these positions been done/completed in the past?  Why isn't this clearly stated in the terms of service?  Because it is not.

 

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Community Guru
Garnor M Member Since: Oct 29, 2014
29 of 31

Hannah and others,

Jobs can include an on-site component, provided they meet our other policies and payment is completed on the site. It is possible jobs removed previously included other violations besides this on-site component that warranted their removal. In any case, we're going to review these policies with our team. We're also going to work with our Legal team to take another look at the Terms of Service in case there's any opportunity for improvement there as well. 

 

If you are presented with specific, real scenarios that include on-site work, you can double check with our Support agents and we'll advise on the proper course of action. We'll ensure that guidance and enforcement is consistent, and clear.

 

Thanks

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Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
30 of 31

. . . Garnor M wrote:We're also going to work with our Legal team to take another look at the Terms of Service in case there's any opportunity for improvement there as well.  . . .

 

Thanks


 This is great news Garnor. There is some very ambiguous writing in the ToS, which definitely should be clarified.

 

(Am I mistaken in thinking that there were once separate guidelines for clients and freelancers? If I remember rightly, the old oDesk ToS, were much clearer if somewhat longer.)