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tiagotalho
Community Member

Lost in space

Would you be so kind (and patient) as to read my story and tell me what you think?

I have always been in awe of people who have talents that I do not have.
By the same token, I have never taken anyone seriously who held my alleged talents in awe: Give over, I don’t have any special talents!
I mean… how can anything that comes naturally by any standard be something special?

Why I am writing at all then, if I do not see that as a special talent of mine?
Because it’s… the natural thing for me to do – as simple as that.
No, I do not mind if no-one wants to read my blog posts. Because, I’m afraid, I am writing for myself. I simply enjoy it, it’s my thing, it’s my music. Not that I’m a great singer or anything, but it’s fun.
Until the other day my brother [whom I had to borrow money from… again, to pay my bills] suggested to me: Why don’t you try to make some money with your linguistic skills?
Yeah, right! Chance would be a fine thing, wouldn’t it, earn a buck or two with my hobby! Are you serious? Which skills, anyway? Everybody has been taught English at school, and most of us French and German as well. Nothing special about that, is there. And Portuguese? I sometimes feel that I, o holandês gigante, care more about Portuguese than most Portuguese do.

I did some tests on Upwork, however, an internet site that I stumbled across a few weeks after that conversation with my brother…
Holy canoli, first place among 6000 test takers on the English to Dutch Translation Skills test!
Next I took the Portuguese to English test [as Portuguese to Dutch was not an option]. First place, again, among 7000 test takers that time. I took some English tests, which – warned Upwork – were meant for native speakers only; nevertheless, most of my scores ended up among the best 20%.

Holy smoke, I actually do have a talent, it seems. Had I known that before, I never would have pursued a managerial career [and would probably have been able to follow up on my dream to sail singlehandedly around the world much sooner].
So, I signed up as a freelancer at Upwork a few months ago. I was thrilled: money for nothing and who-knows-what-else for free!
Next question: freelancer at what?
Copywriting? I secretly feel that I would make a great copywriter. Give me a subject, a word, a name, anything I can sink my teeth in, and I will come up with a great catch phrase or slogan. But, what the [flip] is SEO? I’d better move on…
Editing then? Proofreading? What would deliverables in those disciplines actually look like?
Let’s stick to translation for now!
Next question: which language? French, German or (Brazilian) Portuguese? And TO which language? English, Dutch?

Let’s begin with English to Dutch – pretty straightforward.
Avoiding weird questions [‘I want my web content translated. How long will that take you?’] I found out that the few remaining interesting projects each demanded 3 million hours experience. Now, how on earth is one supposed to gain experience if experience is the conditio-sine-qua-non for landing a project? [That is a rhetorical question, by the way; it’s for me to find out of course. I don’t want to come across as a grievance-monger.]

However, straightforward it is, most of the time…
Potential clients don’t beat about the bush… I mean, they don’t seem to regard language as music at all. To them it’s a tool – hammers, screwdrivers. Am I going to like that at all?
Well, don’t be a sissy now! Send a few proposals first and see what happens!
So I did. And… silence befell me.
Did I worry? Well, all of a sudden I was more worried actually that anyone would respond to my sent proposals, because would it indeed be… money for nothing? Is it actually going to be ‘making use of my alleged talents’, when all that I am supposed to do is to hammer away all the time, or to… screw?
Dear God, what have I gotten myself into?

I decided to set my hourly rate ridiculously high, in order to ponder the situation for a while. Have I made a wrong turn somewhere? Am I still on the right track? Am I on the right platform? In the right universe? Am I actually going to have fun doing what I am supposedly good at? Or will I be out of my depth, silently pining away? Or am I simply lost, lost in space – perdu dans l’embarras du choix? Ou quoi?

The funny thing is that [with the ridiculously high hourly rate] I actually got a first response: What my per word rate would be, an enterprise client wanted to know. Hahaha! Je n’en sais rien! 10c?

Anyway, browsing on the Upwork forum last night I stumbled across several people who seem to have all the answers…
I suppose I could use that forum to ask them what they think, couldn’t I. Or do I run the risk of being chased off the forum [and, subsequently, the platform] with derisive remarks, sticks and stones?
I guess, there’s only one way to find out…

ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Jaap, your English is extraordinarily good. But streamline your offer to begin with. English to Dutch is not such a common language pair. German to Dutch and Portuguese to Dutch are also a good pairs because they are less common. 

 

A portfolio is essential - and yes, you can "invent one". Find articles, or literary pieces that are not in copyright, or if they are, ask permission to translate, people are very generous (I have found) when I have wanted to translate a magazine or news article as part of my portfolio. You do not have to put everything  in your Upwork portfolio, just a couple of pieces. Translation is a long haul. Learn how to translate. (The same goes for editing and proofreading.)

 

Your attitude is a bit gung-ho and breezy, perhaps drop this down a notch or two, particularly when you send a proposal. Never do the "hail-fellow, well-met" routine. I would say 99% of clients are totally unresponsive to this approach. 

 

It takes time to get a gig on Upwork, so don't give up, but serious, preliminary hard work is essential input if you want to stay the course. 

 

 

 

View solution in original post

21 REPLIES 21
richard_wein
Community Member

Hi Jaap. Welcome to Upwork, and thanks for a very enjoyable read!

 

I'm not a writer or translator (apart from having done some Russian-English technical translation a very long time ago), so I won't give you any advice. But I wish you good luck.

 

Great test scores by the way. But what's with your 4.90/5.00 score (on English To Brazilian Portuguese Translation Skills Test) being only "Below Average"??!!

Hi Richard,

Thank you very much!

The Brazilian test? I'm not really sure. Upwork claims that I made one mistake, having my adjectives crossed. One cannot really verify, can one now. If memory serves me well though, there was one question where I translated 'huge' with 'enorme', where Upwork [erroneously] may feel that I should have translated it with 'grande'.

All the same, maybe it's me, but  I found it amusing that with only one mistake one's score can still end up 'below average'. That's all.

Cheers

petra_r
Community Member

Jaap, scrap your overview. Everything apart from "Native Dutch, fluent in English, Portuguese, Brazilian" can go in the bin.

 

No client wants to read a wall of text or what you were good at in school. In fact clients do not want to hear about you as such, at all, they want to know how what you do saves or earns them money. That's all. Your educational details belong under education, your courses and seminars belong under "other stuff." at the bottom.

 

Where is your translation portfolio?

 

Another hint: Experienced translation clients will not take a translator seriously who translates out of their native into a bunch of their non-native languages. Let alone someone who offers to translate from a non-native into another non-native language. It simply isn't done. It isn't a good idea unless you are truly at a native level, which usually means you have lived in that country for several years speaking, writing, thinking and dreaming (almost) exclusively that language.

 

Why are your languages not listed under "Languages" on the right hand site of your profile?

 

In the overview or list of applicants all that shows of your profile are the first two lines. Those two lines must need to "sell" you well enough to make a prospective client want to find out more.

 

Fix typos / spelling errors.

 

Remove the "link" to your blog: Not allowed

 

Hide all test results that are less than top 30%

 

Have a go, then come back and let's take another look 😉

 

Hi Petra,

 

Thank you very much for your response. I shall follow your advice as best as I can, though I am not aware of any typos or misspellings.

By 'overview' you mean those first two or three lines which comprise my entire profile? Oh, dear, I didn't realise that they were that much beside the point already.

You may feel that my English is less than perfect or even dodgy [I have never actually been living in another country than Holland or Portugal], but my daily life has been all Portuguese for the last decade.

Anyway, I shall have a look at what you are referring to and get back to you. 

Cheers

 


@Jaap S wrote:

Thank you very much for your response. I shall follow your advice as best as I can, though I am not aware of any typos or misspellings.

By 'overview' you mean those first two or three lines which comprise my entire profile? Oh, dear, I didn't realise that they were that much beside the point already.

You may feel that my English is less than perfect or even dodgy [I have never actually been living in another country than Holland or Portugal], but my daily life has been all Portuguese for the last decade.

Anyway, I shall have a look at what you are referring to and get back to you. 

Cheers

 


 Your English is in no way dodgy at all, but it's not "native level" so you shouldn't be translating INTO it.

By "scrap your entire overview" I meant you want to scrap everything apart from "Native Dutch, fluent in English, Portuguese, Brazilian" which I see you have, but to be honest I am not loving what you replaced it with either, as it doesn't really tell a client anything about your translation experience or expertise.

The square brackets look odd and what someone said about an employment situation that could not possibly have less to do with translations if it tried is irrelevant, unless yours were a profile for business consultancy. It also sounds very much like "boasting."

 

If your German is merely conversational, offering to translate it is unwise, let alone from one non-native language to another. It *will* eventually misfire on you.

 

Same for French.

 

There is a hell of a lot more to translation than speaking two or three or more languages. To think knowing 2 languages makes a person a translator is like saying owning a scalpel makes them a surgeon.

 

You must, must, must have a portfolio. If you haven't got items, create some.

 

@Richard W wrote:

Great test scores by the way. But what's with your 4.90/5.00 score (on English To Brazilian Portuguese Translation Skills Test) being only "Below Average"??!!

 Some of the translation and language tests are ludicrously easy, so if most test takers get everything right then all those share 1st place, and everyone who makes even one mistake is "below average."

 

The "First place" does not mean out of everyone, it means "shared first place" together with god knows how many others who got the same score.

 

 

 

There you go...

From the reproach of 'always being too modest' I apparently went into over-drive. I stand corrected.

 

Portfolio? What do you mean? Are you suggesting I INVENT one? Or am I missing the point again? 

By way of exercise, I have been translating a couple of articles from some old 'New Statesman'. But that does hardly count, does it. 


@Jaap S wrote:

Portfolio? What do you mean? Are you suggesting I INVENT one? Or am I missing the point again?


 Not invent - create.

 

That's a wrap, innit. 

I had to add a more or less superfluous sentence to my overview as Upwork found it too short as it was.

 

About the translation portfolio... I tried to [uhhh, sorry, Petra] I DID tell in my initial text that I only recently found out about my translation skills, didn't I. And that 'silence befell me' after I sent some proposals.
I started to wonder what I was doing wrong; if I perhaps had stumbled across the wrong platform.

The latter I can rule out now, as your response implied, but I actually WAS doing a lot wrong in my overview [although I did not find the typos you referred to; I may have deleted them along with the superfluous text].

What d'ye think? Better?

Jaap - You need to work a lot more on the overview of your profile.  "as my native tongue has many pitfalls. In my managerial career the buzzword at the executive level used to be: If you want to have a problem solved, get Jaap involved!" 

 

The above, IMO just doesn't sound right. You need to emphase what you can do. When I see the word pitfalls, it makes me think that you're not really good at what you do. What have you translated? Do you translate mainly articles, letters, stories, medical information, technical writing etc?

 

As to your portfolio, include samples of what you can do. Pick out newspaper articles, magazines, articles, etc and translate them. Include before and after. You need to concentrate on selling what a clients needs. It's not about you personally, it's what services you can do.

 

If you're serious, then don't set those high rates, because no one will ever hire you, and you'll never find out if freelancer is for you. Don't set cheap low rates either. Otherwise you'll get the cheap clients who will ask for endless edits and will never think your work is good enough or what they want.

 

My best advice for you is to look at a few profiles of translators. or profiles of other freelancers and see what they include in their profiles. You can create a clients account and search freelancers who translate or write. That will give youi an idea of what to include in yours and how to create yours.. BUT.... a word of caution, DO NOT copy their profiles. Otherwise, you WILL be found out and your account will be suspended.

Thank you, Kathy! That sounds like good advice. Will do.

[The fact that my story so far has given you the impression that I could be a possible copycat, is pretty frightening though.] 

Jaap, your English is extraordinarily good. But streamline your offer to begin with. English to Dutch is not such a common language pair. German to Dutch and Portuguese to Dutch are also a good pairs because they are less common. 

 

A portfolio is essential - and yes, you can "invent one". Find articles, or literary pieces that are not in copyright, or if they are, ask permission to translate, people are very generous (I have found) when I have wanted to translate a magazine or news article as part of my portfolio. You do not have to put everything  in your Upwork portfolio, just a couple of pieces. Translation is a long haul. Learn how to translate. (The same goes for editing and proofreading.)

 

Your attitude is a bit gung-ho and breezy, perhaps drop this down a notch or two, particularly when you send a proposal. Never do the "hail-fellow, well-met" routine. I would say 99% of clients are totally unresponsive to this approach. 

 

It takes time to get a gig on Upwork, so don't give up, but serious, preliminary hard work is essential input if you want to stay the course. 

 

 

 

Thank you, Nichola. Arthur Godfrey, a teacher from Scarborough, once told me that my spoken and written command of the language was better than that of most of his colleagues. [As a matter of fact the Canadian consultants I used to have on my team were very complimentary as well; but I filed that under 'making up with the boss'.] However, as I indicated before, I never took those compliments to heart. This time I will. Thanks again!

 

Just asking, as you may know the answer...

Would an article as included (still) be under copyright? Or is it wise to check with NewStatesman anyway, just to be on the safe side?

 

Yeah, that's a bit of problem with us 6'7" guys, isn't it. People tend to smile when we adopt the amicable approach. We sometimes forget that their reaction may be slightly different when we are not physically standing next to them. Thanks for reminding me!

 

Hard work is no problem. To me it is play. Only the thought suddenly flashed through my mind that I was pouring water down a bottomless barrel. But if you say that I am more or less on the right track, I feel a lot better, and will blaze a trail if necessary. Thanks!

 

Thank you all for your benevolent and selfless help!

And the file

Well, if the file is not excepted, let me try this...

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

By Jaap **Edited for Community Guidelines**on May 3, 2018 at 10:25 am

Posted In: English To Dutch Translations

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

New Statesman (25 November – 1 December 2016)

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

[The interesting part about translating an article that employs more than the hundred words the average citizen uses is: one can dip into one’s own Dutch vocabulary as well. jsl]

Uhhh???

What do you think, Nichola, am I getting any warmer?


@Jaap S wrote:

Thank you, Kathy! That sounds like good advice. Will do.

[The fact that my story so far has given you the impression that I could be a possible copycat, is pretty frightening though.] 


 

Not frightening at all. Also NOT saying your a possible copycat. But there are freelancers here, who do copy other freelancers profiles. They are caught, and their accounts suspended. Just giving you a heads up.

 

Also, I suggest, that before you submit proposals, that you read the posts in the New to Upwork and the freelancers discussion sections so you'll know what to look out for in the way of scammers.  Don't want you to be afraid, Just want you to be smart.

Thanks, Kathy. Thanks for your advice.

 

The typo in the first line is an indicator - at least in my experience - of you being an American native speaker.

[That's just an observation on my part by the way; no malevolence intended.]

csvanhove
Community Member

Hey Jaap,

 

as a English - Dutch translator and a copywriter, some answers to your struggle:


1. In the Dutch labour market, prices are usually above upwork levels. This means that your expected income, especially at the start of your upwork carreer, might not be workable. 
2. That being said, setting your hourly rate high is a good thing. Translation goes, if you're doing it well, usually with a per word price. Someone offering translations for say 7 bucks an hour is considered as someone who does not trust his quality of work.
3. However, 10 cts per word is too high. Consider a professional office for translations offers a rate of 8 cents in the netherlands, including BTW (VAT). With those rates they need to pay taxes, their employees social security, rent of buildings, computers, phone and internet lines, etc. etc. Set your price at 3 or 4 cents, it will render you a nice hourly wage for upwork.
4. The painfull part, make miles. If someone offers you 1 ct, do NOT take it as a project, but under the condition of being given a review, using it for your portfolio, and that it is a SPECIAL discount, not your regular price, negotiate a 2 cts price. Communicate that your regular price is 4 cts, but you're willing to offer a discount for a 1 time project. Say the next project will cost the regular price. Do this with max 3 customers, then raise the price. Make sure in this part, you see upwork as an evening hour job, next to a regular one that gives you a viable income. 
- note - I know that this sickens the upwork market, but unfortunately this makes you gain your first reviews and portfolio. Therefore, do say it's a discount and a one time only discount.
5. Build a portfolio. Translate random texts, that are not copywrited. Examples, some of your stories or a made up text that fits your field of translation.
6. It already has been said, translate into DUTCH and dutch only. English is not your native language and will only land you bad reviews, if hired at all.

7. About your profile, enough said 🙂 
Wishing you "veel succes" on Upwork

Hey Camiel,
I appreciate you weighing in on an issue I brought up - well, what is it? A year? - some time ago. Fortunately, things have slightly looked up since then. I have done a lot of translation via this platform and made... very little. But, at least, I ´made miles´ as you put it. It is true, what you say, that most translation bureaus will offer you no more than 3 cts per word. And, it seems that, once you´re a player in the little boys league, you´re not taken into consideration by people who are looking for quality. No problem, it´s probably my own fault, and their loss. As long as I´m having a good time doing what I do best, it´s fine by me.

The funny thing is, I´ve discovered a new world. Or rather, that world discovered me. International bureaus operating for huge companies found me and are interested in... Frisian. Can you believe it? My maternal language! This platform does not even consider Frisian a language. They probably don´t even know their language is a Frisian dialect. 😉
Beg your pardon?
Yes, I know that most of you firmly believe that one cannot be native level in more than one language. Well, let me tell you that most Frisians´ command of Dutch is much better than most Dutchmen´s. And, most Frisians´ command of English is much better than most... okay, Dutchmen´s 🙂
But the funniest thing is... When I had one of those bureaus on the phone for the first time, they asked me what I would charge per word. I bluffed. 7cts, I replied. They laughed in my face. I didn´t have a clue why, until I received the purchase order. They paid me 10 cts per word - euro cents, that is.
I guess what I want to say, Camiel, is: the more I learn the less I understand.
Cheers,
Jaap

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