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Re: New milestone by a Client without prior consent

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Active Member
Alex S Member Since: Jan 15, 2019
11 of 27



Petra R wrote:

Alex S wrote:

 

...Welcome to the new wolrd slavery.

 

...the scale of catastrophy to see how many people have had signed up for this.

 

...a corresponding note goes to the corresponding court and/or officials.


Seriously? "Slavery?" - "scale of catastrophy?" - "corresponding court?" Hysteria, much?

You've had one contract and made a grand total of $ 25 on Upwork.

If this platform isn't to your liking, use another one.

Simple.

 

Oh and as for H ( "(H) once a week specific schedule per withdrawal transfer with specific minimums;") - You are free to withdraw your $ 20 any time you like, the "schedule" and "minimum" is only for auto-withdrawals.


"Community Guru" got bitter much?

 

Sharp, dry, objective fact based analysis. Ever heard of it?

 

google.com "Slavery": "a condition compared to that of a slave in respect of exhausting labor or restricted freedom."

 

"slave": "a person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something"

 

"freelancer": "freelancer or freelance worker, is a term commonly used for a person who is self-employed and is not necessarily committed to a particular employer long-term ..."

 

UpWork Inc. is an employer here, which I guess adds extra bonuses for "Community Gurus" and their loyalty to the establishment.

 

"Freelancer" is being perseverantly replaced by UpWork Inc. (e.g. agency) with working under controlled, highly restricted conditions far below market prices.

 

Questions?

 

Every time anyone submits their top notch work 10x+ cheaper the market average after all these restrictions, they are undermining the real meaning of the word "freelancer" and their own value.

 

Keep going, keep sleeping.

 

Sweet dreams.

Community Guru
Maria T Member Since: Nov 12, 2015
12 of 27

And once again, someone comes to the forums with a question (which I find very interesting because I did not know that this could happen) and, when he gets answers, he just rages.
I have been a freelancer for many years, and a few here and in another portal, and I think you are wrong.
Precisely, the "freedom" to decide with who, how much and how to work is what I like, and being "protected" (even with failures) to be able to charge for my work gives me a security that "working out there", I do not have .
I can not see your profile, but how many problems have you had to be so angry?
And ... I think I've missed something. Where do I have to sign up to be paid as a "Guru of the community"?

 

PS.- I would really like some moderator to comment on the problem raised in the original question.

Active Member
Alex S Member Since: Jan 15, 2019
13 of 27

Maria T wrote:

And once again, someone comes to the forums with a question (which I find very interesting because I did not know that this could happen) and, when he gets answers, he just rages.
I have been a freelancer for many years, and a few here and in another portal, and I think you are wrong.
Precisely, the "freedom" to decide with who, how much and how to work is what I like, and being "protected" (even with failures) to be able to charge for my work gives me a security that "working out there", I do not have .
I can not see your profile, but how many problems have you had to be so angry?
And ... I think I've missed something. Where do I have to sign up to be paid as a "Guru of the community"?

 

PS.- I would really like some moderator to comment on the problem raised in the original question.


I do not see how stating bare facts is considered "angry", yet you have purposefully evaded the outright disrespectful response of the other "Community Guru" to whom my response was addressed, it has been precisely mirrored reaction.

 

"I can not see your profile", yet previous commenter (e.g. "Community Guru") has not just seen my profile, but as well the amount I have been paid for.

 

It is up to you to think who is right and who is wrong - as the matter of fact, it remains a certainty that UpWork Inc. is an agency, and everyone here is their contracted employee with applied limitations as per the contract to serve their respective Clients and provide variety.

 

Yet, the UpWork's claims "start your new freelancing business" are not true.

 

>Where do I have to sign up to be paid as a "Guru of the community"?

 

Every sarcasm has a part of sarcasm. Wild guess - it is invite only, for obvious reasons.

 

>be able to charge for my work gives me a security that "working out there", I do not have

 

That is a false sense of security, the same as you have with any employer. 

 

"Out there" (e.g. the real freedom of free commerce) you have:

 

(AA) an agreement with your client for a fixed one-time rate of max USD 150/300 to your lawyer / attorney which terms you totally control by yourself and seek agreement with your Client;

 

(BB) you have your own website, communication channels of your own choice - all of which you control;

 

(CC) you create your own list of potential clients from fortune 500 or wherever you find it necessary;

 

(DD) you are protected by the contractual law + common law of the jurisdiction of choice per your agreement;

 

(EE) all payments go directly to your bank account(s) within max 2 hours (ACH, US) or max 6 hours (SEPA, EU)

 

(FF) in case if escrow is required, there are fixed rate options below 3.5% provided by licensed financial institutions, as well as with multi-jusrisdictional licences for international clients - it is all there, just open google;

 

(GG) and most importantly, you are investing your time in your own brand, in your name, in yourself, in your future, you are under 100% control of the situation(s) - that is called business, that is the real freelance.

 

Yes there are some great over achievers here who are making USD 200k, 500k, 2M+ and whatnot per year here.

 

But still, that does not change the facts that:

 

(FA) Their activity is dependent / grows within the UpWork terms which can be changed anytime without notice;

 

(FB) They are de facto employees or de jure subcontractors of the UpWork Inc. (the Agency) servicing professional (legal entities) and private (natural persons) clients of the UpWork Inc. per the contract herewith by providing fully customized self-regulated services within the Client's terms, acting within the UpWork Inc. terms.

 

(FC) All actual projects' rates within UpWork are artificially reduced below the market rates due to (a) showing "no clue" how much the requested work really costs, (b)  enormous competition and (b) temptation to accept lower priced subcontractors for their project(s) and/or job(s).

 

E.g. people who think they are successful with USD 0.5M+ per annum in earnings here on UpWork, probably are comparably so (besides paying 5% per each transaction given USD 10K+ per client and being tied to UpWork Inc.)

 

However, thinking that they are "freelancers" or "business owners" is illusional, as they could have earned USD 5M (or more) per annum with their own - real - freelance business, as there are no limits for growth.

 

And that exactly is what UpWork Inc. is doing, and this is terrible damage to the actual quiet freelance world.

 

The real freelancers do not have a habit of showing off their tax brackets and weighing opponent's opinion on subject by their demonstrated annual earnings.

 

The side effect of all this is that the majority of clients (e.g. open market, or as you put it - "out there") are hesitating to hire a freelancer at the market price (such as of an agency) and retreat to "status quo" options by copy pasting available solutions - this is why we all still have online shops which all look alike and UX methodology which suppresses actual innovation.

 

That is a serious issue and requires multi iterational approach.

 

First iteration is understanding the problem.

 

You are welcome.

Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
14 of 27

Maria T wrote:

And once again, someone comes to the forums with a question (which I find very interesting because I did not know that this could happen) and, when he gets answers, he just rages.
I have been a freelancer for many years, and a few here and in another portal, and I think you are wrong.
Precisely, the "freedom" to decide with who, how much and how to work is what I like, and being "protected" (even with failures) to be able to charge for my work gives me a security that "working out there", I do not have .
I can not see your profile, but how many problems have you had to be so angry?
And ... I think I've missed something. Where do I have to sign up to be paid as a "Guru of the community"?

 

PS.- I would really like some moderator to comment on the problem raised in the original question.


So would I. OP's tantrum was mildly diverting at first but I can't make it through the most recent wall of text. Meanwhile, the question raised needs attention.

 

In practical terms, I don't see it as likely to create real problems among the genuinely professional clients and FLs who operate with mutual respect, trust, and effective communication baked into their contracts. However, it seems like a(nother) unnecessary pothole whereby an unscrupulous client could strong-arm a FL into accepting a revised scope of work after they're too invested to walk away. That's not good for anybody.

 

At the same time, it needs to be pain-free for a client to add milestones after consultation with the FL, for all of the obvious reasons.

 

Moderators, we're hoping to hear from you soon!

 

Active Member
Alex S Member Since: Jan 15, 2019
15 of 27

Thorough neutral response dismissed and devalued as "tantrum", "wall of text" by yet another "community guru".

 

You are very much welcome to do as you please.

 

Those genuinely interested and who can read English will understand.

 

I personally could not have cared less (or more) regarding your (or anybody else's) strategic life choises.

 

Wish you every success and best of luck.

Community Guru
Martina P Member Since: Jul 11, 2018
16 of 27

Alex S wrote:

Thorough neutral response dismissed and devalued as "tantrum", "wall of text" by yet another "community guru".

 

You are very much welcome to do as you please.

 

Those genuinely interested and who can read English will understand.

 

I personally could not have cared less (or more) regarding your (or anybody else's) strategic life choises.

 

Wish you every success and best of luck.


Hey, just a few more posts, and suddenly you will find yourself to be anointed a community guru yourself! (Just between us: it's just the number of posts that get you there, not the content, ...) Would you not just hate to be part of a group you speak so derisively of? 

 

Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
17 of 27

Alex, Maria and others,

 

The freelancer is not required to work on a milestone is they didn't agree to. The client needs to get freelancer's consent before adding a new milestone. If the freelancer doesn't accept the added milestone, they can reject it by terminating the contract. 

Please, see section 2 of the Optional Service Contract Terms for more information about that. Additionally, please see section 2 of the User Agreement for more information about the purpose of Upwork.

 

We appreciate feedback shared here about fixed price contracts and suggestion to add a functionality to accept or reject milestones without closing the contract. We'll forward this feedback to the team. 

 

Note that some posts on this thread have been edited or removed. Please, be mindful of the Community Guidelines and respectful toward other members of the Community when posting on this boards.

~ Valeria
Untitled
Community Guru
Kim F Member Since: Aug 26, 2015
18 of 27

"If the freelancer doesn't accept the added milestone, they can reject it by terminating the contract. "

 

But that's using a hammer to crack a nut. The freelancer might a) not be available that week/day to comply with the demands of that milestone; b) not be skilled at the particular task requested; c) have moral, ethical or legal reasons for refusing a milestone; d) many other reasons.

 

What about planned subsequent milestones besides the one in question?

 

It's ludicrous that Upwork recommends ceasing a business relationship because a freelancer can't or won't do a single task associated with a contract.

Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
19 of 27

Valeria K wrote:

Alex, Maria and others,

 

The freelancer is not required to work on a milestone is they didn't agree to. The client needs to get freelancer's consent before adding a new milestone. If the freelancer doesn't accept the added milestone, they can reject it by terminating the contract. 

Please, see section 2 of the Optional Service Contract Terms for more information about that. Additionally, please see section 2 of the User Agreement for more information about the purpose of Upwork.

 

We appreciate feedback shared here about fixed price contracts and suggestion to add a functionality to accept or reject milestones without closing the contract. We'll forward this feedback to the team. 

 

Note that some posts on this thread have been edited or removed. Please, be mindful of the Community Guidelines and respectful toward other members of the Community when posting on this boards.


Thanks, Valeria. 

Active Member
Scott S Member Since: Feb 10, 2019
20 of 27

I am trying to understand the inner workings of my first contract getting started and was just reviewing the fixed price guide. Isn't it true that the Milestone needs to be funded? Or is that condition only prior to the contract starting?

 

When the client adds a milestone shouldn't it have money attached?

 

As the Freelancer, and I see a new milestone added and wasn't aware of it, why would I not be able to message the client to discuss or negotiate the new work and cost and they would be able to adjust it accordinly? Am I missing something? ( I could be missing something because I haven't experienced this yet).

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