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seritatheresa
Community Member

Racism and Profile Picture Requirement

I'm new to Upwork and I'm a plus member. I am trying to remain optimistic, but I fear that requiring a photo of myself may result in fewer hires/interviews. Are there many black people using upwork? Have they faced similar difficulty getting jobs?

43 REPLIES 43
martina_plaschka
Community Member


Serita W wrote:

I'm new to Upwork and I'm a plus member. I am trying to remain optimistic, but I fear that requiring a photo of myself may result in fewer hires/interviews. Are there many black people using upwork? Have they faced similar difficulty getting jobs?


Hard to say, but with freelancers from every corner of the world and almost all countries, I would assume that the platform is pretty diverse. EVERYBODY has difficulty getting jobs, because this is a buyer's market by a huge margin. 10K people try to join every day, only 2% are accepted, out of those who made it, well over 2 million people, only 10% have any earnings. 

I'm a data scientist. The field is diverse but implicit bias is a major problem in IT and CS. There are minorities perceived of as being better at computer science. I don't think Freelance is any different than the traditional marketplace. I have had more success with applying to jobs with my initials only on my resume which conceals both my race and gender. This is not to be deceptive. It is to force hiring managers to look at my skills education, and experience. I feel that Upwork is doing black freelancers a disservice by forcing us to put our faces above our qualifications. People do see color.


Serita W wrote:

I'm a data scientist. The field is diverse but implicit bias is a major problem in IT and CS. There are minorities perceived of as being better at computer science. I don't think Freelance is any different than the traditional marketplace. I have had more success with applying to jobs with my initials only on my resume which conceals both my race and gender. This is not to be deceptive. It is to force hiring managers to look at my skills education, and experience. I feel that Upwork is doing black freelancers a disservice by forcing us to put our faces above our qualifications. People do see color.


__________________________

 

Serita, 

 

Upwork does not allow colour distinction - but of course it does exist - one can only hope that eventually, those bigoted, badly educated people will learn - or maybe (hopefully) die out.  Your qualifications will show over and above the colour of your skin ( a beautiful matt colour that many women, including me, if they had the money, would pay mega bucks for!).

 

A good client will not care and I am quite sure, based on your qualifications, you will land more jobs than you can cope with. 

 

Go out bravely and forget colour. There are thousands of highly qualified Indian, African and African American freelancers on this site, many of whom are doing extremely well - **edited for Community Guidelines**.  Raise the flag girl and go out there with your picture intact ...  

Serita, in the 7 or so years that I've been on this platform, I have never been aware of complaints about racial bias.  Country of origin?  Oh yes, for sure.  But not racial, and especially not with US clients. 

And I can assure you that UW freelancers complain about everything - real or imagined!

 

I was concerned at first because I'm old and I have white hair - but while that works against me in the bricks and mortar world, it hasn't affected me a bit as a freelancer. I'm not sure that clients even look at profile pictures.


Mary W wrote:

Serita, in the 7 or so years that I've been on this platform, I have never been aware of complaints about racial bias.  Country of origin?  Oh yes, for sure.  But not racial, and especially not with US clients. 

And I can assure you that UW freelancers complain about everything - real or imagined!

 

I was concerned at first because I'm old and I have white hair - but while that works against me in the bricks and mortar world, it hasn't affected me a bit as a freelancer. I'm not sure that clients even look at profile pictures.


I think the profile picture is very important. It is one of the few things that make a personal connection, which is crucial for getting hired. I believe a bad, unprofessional picture - unfriendly, unsmiling, not looking at the camera, holding your baby or dog, ... can really hurt. Your picture, Serita, is exactly how it should be. 


Mary W wrote:

Serita, in the 7 or so years that I've been on this platform, I have never been aware of complaints about racial bias.  Country of origin?  Oh yes, for sure.  But not racial, and especially not with US clients. 

And I can assure you that UW freelancers complain about everything - real or imagined!

 

I was concerned at first because I'm old and I have white hair - but while that works against me in the bricks and mortar world, it hasn't affected me a bit as a freelancer. I'm not sure that clients even look at profile pictures.


Old, white-haired ladies unite!  Smiley Wink

BUt you are talking about age. Race is something ENTIRELY different trust me I have been brown all my life.

Freelancing is different from regular work. Clients are here to get stuff done. I think they are more interested in finding people that can do the work and less about how well you fit into the company "culture".

No. The studies consistently show that blacks have a much harder time. Upwork is requiring a photo as well as a name to be displayed. This definitely is designed to give advantage to white Americans.

!

cartrellgeneral
Community Member

Hi Serita, I have never had a problem securing clients on Upwork. In fact, I have made my profile private because I have more than enough work to keep me busy at this time. Don't worry about race, let your profile be your face. If you have the skill set needed by the client, your chances are as good as anyone else. If a client doesn't want you because of your race, do you really want to work with that client anyway?

I actually asked people on social media as well and they all said they experienced similar issues. As I said before, implicit bias in computer science and data science operates differently than other fields. Thank you all very much. I'll try "not to worry about race" but I'll also be cancelling my plus membership, which was my actual question.


Serita W wrote:
I actually asked people on social media as well and they all said they experienced similar issues. As I said before, implicit bias in computer science and data science operates differently than other fields. Thank you all very much. I'll try "not to worry about race" but I'll also be cancelling my plus membership, which was my actual question.

______________________________

 

There seems to be a wave of colour bias at the moment. It is up to all of us, regardless of skin or race, to fight it.  A top British tennis player says she gets insulted on social media practically every day, but has learned to contend with it. It beggars belief ... 

 

As to the plus membership, I really can't see the value of it unless you are starved for connects, or are determined to hide your earnings. When I run out, I will simply buy a batch. 

Telling people of color not to "worry about race" is quite insulting.

I'm new, and still learning the ropes. I feel extremely uncomfortable that freelancers have to show our profile photo, but folks on the other side of the agreement do not.
darewing
Community Member

You miss the point of her post. IF a photo lessens your job opportunities under Upwork requirements for a complete profile and IF there is cultural and systemic bias in the U.S. (which data tells us there is), then the photo requirement does, indeed, have the impact of causing systemic inequality in job opportunity. 

 

Of course it is her choice. Your response, unfortunately, demonstrates a lack of understanding about the path in which others travel vs. your own -- and that's unfortunate. 

martinnwoga
Community Member

Hello Serita,

 

I am having the same issue. I was a Plus member for a few months with next to no luck. Also I have been using upwork for more than 5 years and I have only been hired once. However, I know people will say "How About You Change Your Profile Or Just Keep Applying." Some people just like to hire people who look like them! Best of luck Serita!

Hi Martin, 

Thank you for participating in this thread. I would like to note that this thread is from 2019, but I understand why it's important to discuss this topic. 

 

I would recommend that you check out these articles from our Hiring Headquarters to help you create proposals that win jobs, and help you boost your career on Upwork: 

Hopefully, this helps you with your Upwork career. Good luck!


~ Avery
Upwork

Thank you so much for sharing these resources. Even as the thread is a bit dated, the concerns that are being vocalized here are of significant relevance to where I would have to ask if anything is being done on Upwork's side to address it?

 

I too am experiencing a hard time with landing clients on Upwork. Stated this with the utmost humily, but I have a completed profile + full portfolio with links to my work, 2 degrees, years of fortune 500 company experience, 21 - 5 star reviews on Google, Entrepenur magazine contributor, Top Course Instructor on Udemy with over 4,800 students, and have only been hired once on Guru and that was by someone that looked like me.

 

I do beleive that many of us are the equivalant of our conterparts and some perhaps in the top percentile, but that's not reflected in the top earners on Upwork for the United States. Yes there are many of us that do well, but can we honestly say that when a picture of us is the first thing seen that this wouldn't impede on many of us getting hired?

Agreeing with you on this completely. In fact, I created a buyers profile to take a look at my competition. Not only are there 5 guys taking all of the work, half of them dont have a single portfolio project listed. My industry has always been extremely racist and sexist and here it's amplified. I had no issues when it was Odesk and I was still a newbie in college them. Now im a decade into experience and can't get work on Upwork. 

I concur.

I have been using this platform for over a decade now, and I have seen how it has changed as it has merged and become known as a different name.

 

Upwork claims that they don't discriminate based on race, but as an American company, they already know that requiring employees and anyone applying for a job to include their photo goes against standard American procedure.

 

In order to get around that and get foreign companies to use them, they have adopted a policy that is deemed racist by MANY institutions even internationally just to make a buck. 

 

I am not about to listen to people in this 'community' that cannot even tell you a single thing about racism/prejudice as it is not even taught in their schools, yet they want to claim to be experts on the subject.

 

If you question Upwork about this issue on their social media, they quickly ask to take it private because they know exactly how this policy reads to informed people of color that work in international spaces.

 

 


Triston B wrote:

I concur.

I have been using this platform for over a decade now, and I have seen how it has changed as it has merged and become known as a different name.

 

Upwork claims that they don't discriminate based on race, but as an American company, they already know that requiring employees and anyone applying for a job to include their photo goes against standard American procedure.

 

In order to get around that and get foreign companies to use them, they have adopted a policy that is deemed racist by MANY institutions even internationally just to make a buck. 

 

I am not about to listen to people in this 'community' that cannot even tell you a single thing about racism/prejudice as it is not even taught in their schools, yet they want to claim to be experts on the subject.

 

If you question Upwork about this issue on their social media, they quickly ask to take it private because they know exactly how this policy reads to informed people of color that work in international spaces.


A few points - we aren't Upwork's employees, we are self-employed, therefore the policies that you're referring to don't apply here. Upwork doesn't discriminate against freelancers who want to look for work on its website - anyone and everyone can join. Clients are the ones who make decisions about who to hire, not Upwork, and if you have evidence that a client has discriminated against you, you can report them.

 

Having said that, I'm certainly not naive enough to think that there aren't any racists and xenophobes here, who will look at a freelancer's photo or country and instantly rule them out. I do sympathise. But it's also important to build trust if you expect clients to hand over hundreds or thousands of dollars to hire a stranger on the Internet. If Upwork had no ability to verify identities, and clients were only able to hire faceless strangers, we would all suffer from getting less work here. I truly believe that if you opted out of having any profile photo at all, you wouldn't be discriminated against on the basis of race, but you'd be discriminated against for seeming untrustworthy.

 

Also, you have a major advantage in that you live in America and have access to the U.S.-only marketplace, where most of the bigger and better projects are. I never see any American freelancers arguing that this is unfair to the rest of us. I checked your profile and it looks to me like you're regularly getting projects, and at a higher hourly rate than 99% of the other freelancers on this website.

 

Im not certain what you saw but those are not his stats. Also, Im not certain why "community gurus" call out community members on their profile stats? Is that supposed to be a haha gotcha moment? It's not and It's rude. Secondly, stop with the "you are from America" false realities. Are you telling us to be grateful? Americans should have access to the US only marketplace. We dont get to snatch jobs from any other country. Thats just false and needs to stop. There are 360 million people here and we all need to eat. Upwork snatches 20 percent not only from labor pay but from bonuses as well, and most gigs are well below the fair pay. Every little thing an American whines about is another reason why another citizen of a country has access, so we aren't doing it because it gives us nice skin.

I have been trying all day to understand only half of what you are writing.

 

1. Christine replied to Triston and pointed out that his hourly rate is higher than for most people non Upwork (including her, me, and you) and since he has 245 jobs in his work history, he seems to be doing well compared to others.

If you beleave this is wrong, please explain why.

 

2. Christine wrote "you live in America" not "you are from America". That  is a big difference. So what are you trying to say when you write "Americans should have access to the US only marketplace. We dont get to snatch jobs from any other country. Thats just false and needs to stop." Do you mean that we should only have access to our local market? Do you never ever apply for jobs posted from a clients outside the US?

 

3. "Upwork snatches 20 percent not only from labor pay but from bonuses as well, and most gigs are well below the fair pay." You agreed to the fee when signing up (continuing using it when Odesk became Upwork). If you disagree with the fees, you are not forced to use Upwork, but these fees are the same for everyone so it doesn't even belong in this thread.

 

4. "Every little thing an American whines about is another reason why another citizen of a country has access, so we aren't doing it because it gives us nice skin."

Access to what and doing what?


Jennifer R wrote:

I have been trying all day to understand only half of what you are writing.

 

1. Christine replied to Triston and pointed out that his hourly rate is higher than for most people non Upwork (including her, me, and you) and since he has 245 jobs in his work history, he seems to be doing well compared to others.

If you beleave this is wrong, please explain why.

 

2. Christine wrote "you live in America" not "you are from America". That  is a big difference. So what are you trying to say when you write "Americans should have access to the US only marketplace. We dont get to snatch jobs from any other country. Thats just false and needs to stop." Do you mean that we should only have access to our local market? Do you never ever apply for jobs posted from a clients outside the US?

 

3. "Upwork snatches 20 percent not only from labor pay but from bonuses as well, and most gigs are well below the fair pay." You agreed to the fee when signing up (continuing using it when Odesk became Upwork). If you disagree with the fees, you are not forced to use Upwork, but these fees are the same for everyone so it doesn't even belong in this thread.

 

4. "Every little thing an American whines about is another reason why another citizen of a country has access, so we aren't doing it because it gives us nice skin."

Access to what and doing what?


Thanks Jennifer, at least I have been able to understand a part.
Let's see if she answers you and I can understand everything she says.

1. Again not going into his ststa. I know it hard for you to understand why those points aren't valid but I feel no desire to teach.

 

2. Yes, and no. People who publish global jobs are specifically looking to pay someone in Mexico and India $4 rates. I never apply to those. For one. it's rude to be so cheap and think it's ok to pay those rates no matter where anyone lives. Entertainment is a billion dollar business. This only supports extortion and now globally will lower the scale on wages as we all race to bottom.  I only apply when I see the client is in The US. I work in audio, I have no business working on a foreign language either if i can't speak it. 

 

3. You brought up some "privlige" about working on the US platform an I made sure to stop you. So im not certain what this question is for. Of course I agreed, but you assummed there was some privliage when as you stated, we are subjected to the same rules here. 20% on $40 is not the same on $4. So technically, any freelancer who has to have a higher rate is actually getting it worse. not all categories of freelancing are the same. Audio mostly wont have gigs that work you enough per gig to decrease the fee. Someone needing a film done aren't producing 5 films a months, and hiring of off Upwork. We get the 1st timers who don't have a crew. We used craigslist and Mandy until Upwork showed up and they all went here.

Hi Chistine - 

Please explain how a photograph deems me worthy of trust.

 

I built trust by taking on work for FAR LESS than I should and building good feedback.  My photo had nothing to do with that.  Nor does it have anything to do with the quality of my work in the future.  My logo would suffice - at least you'd know I took the time (and MONEY) to actually form an LLC, which means that I am reporting my income - being honest about what I earn on this platform.  My photo doesn't convey that.


The only way a photo would have anything to do with trust is if we associate a certain type of photo as being "trustworthy."  And I'd love to know that criteria.


RaeAnna S wrote:

Agreeing with you on this completely. In fact, I created a buyers profile to take a look at my competition. Not only are there 5 guys taking all of the work, half of them dont have a single portfolio project listed. My industry has always been extremely racist and sexist and here it's amplified. I had no issues when it was Odesk and I was still a newbie in college them. Now im a decade into experience and can't get work on Upwork. 


You are very new to Upwork and it will take a while to get going, you have one job on your profile and that's a great start. Your rate may seem high (I don't know what the going rate is in your industry) compared to similar freelancers in other countries but I'd stick with that and understand that it may take longer to get jobs but the jobs you get will be better paying...plus we live off of clients that come back to us with repeat work so this may work out well in the long run.

 

One suggestion I have is because of your industry, I'd consider a profile photo with you doing the work in headphones, let potential clients visualize you completing their sound work.

Occording to her own words, she is not entirely new:

"I had no issues when it was Odesk and I was still a newbie in college them."

Thank you for this. This is a new profile yes, my Odesk is long gone. As far as your suggestions, in my first comment of support, I mentioned researching freelancer profiles to see what I could improve on, and I have nothing to improve. Again, my profile compared to others was much better. Some top sellers (mostly male) only had one project example. Many women who were literally sitting in front of their studios with thousand dollar desks had less thank 1k in sales. This is not a cheap industry you can see. Im only referring to US. As far as applying that is only who I compete with. 

I was just looking for this today.  It does happen.

I'm often asked to interview for people who need an "urban accent." ( Which is interesting, because I do not have one - nor can I fake one convincingly.)  Gee - I wonder why?

 

You can't control the racism of others, but you have absolute control over the polices that enable it. 

I am fine with having a face photo, but I absolutely DO NOT believe it has to be the FIRST photo.  I have a business logo - which should be fine.

 

I know that in the year of George Floyd, Upwork made a strong committment to diversity - with a WHOLE BLACK BANNER!

Your freelancers of color are speaking - it would behoove you to listen.

chester_onah
Community Member

Hello, I am new to upwork but already knows how this system works. Landed some jobs and have ratings. I thought after getting few jobs and some rating then landing other jobs won't be difficult, but it is now a pain the ass. A client once rejected my offer because he/she preferred another, and of course because I was black. I had to check the job and saw the client hired a white woman for the job, who is over her 50s and I was over qualified for the project, even the client stated it themselves. I feel having our country's shown is very bad for people who don't live in the USA and ontop of that being black, you feel so inferior. And hardly gets jobs. It's just the way it is.
scoperaven1
Community Member

Agreed before that policy, with my portfolio alone I was able to get soooo many responses and work! Now zero!
95551a83
Community Member

Yeah the idea of picture is a deal breaker but also being black will be hard to navigate, also you need to understand that African quality is under valued due to historical, current and future reasons that our race is "good for nothing". But I noticed females tend to have a better chance so best of luck.
adcolor
Community Member

Back in the day when I used this site I used a stock photo of a white man, had NO work to speak of and still got jobs that paid my rent. I deleted that account because I felt like I shouldn’t have to be scared to show my skin in order to get jobs.

Fast forward to now where I have a new account, MY face, a top rated badge and a 100% (now 91% for some reason even though I didn’t do anything?) completion rate, 6 five star reviews for my work annnnd it’s been crickets. I literally get nothing and on multiple occasions if I’m the only one to apply to a job, the client just makes the same job post again.

There is definitely a racial bias on this site and it’s asinine to think that that the issues I deal with getting a job in real life won’t translate to the digital world. If people are racist to your face then of course behind a keyboard and screen they’ll be emboldened enough to deny you based only on your skin.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk I guess. This is America and all that.
triston
Community Member

Hello, As someone that has worked on Upwork before it was even Upwork, I have seen how this site has changed over the years. 

Their recent requirement that freelancers show their photos is suspect, because if you are American, you know that this is viewed as racist because it allows employees to discriminate against you based on the color of your skin or race. But Upwork is now even more of an international company and in many countries, having a photo is required when applying for a job, and it has been studied many times over and it is a very known fact that this is where lots of bias lies. 

Also, as someone that has lived across 5 continents, I know that many countries don't see it as such because their countries are very homogenous and they can get away with it and it is not contested, by and large.

So, yes, for me, it is a discriminatory policy they currently have here, and it should be challenged every step of the way until it is changed. Upwork could easily verify workers privately to confirm they are real as they did before. I have also had here clients attempt to question my experience and proficiency despite being a top-rated performer here, and in my experience, they feel that they can say this to someone that is of color. But keep your head up and keep speaking up because it is the only way it will change. 


Triston B wrote:

Hello, As someone that has worked on Upwork before it was even Upwork, I have seen how this site has changed over the years. 

Their recent requirement that freelancers show their photos is suspect, because if you are American, you know that this is viewed as racist because it allows employees to discriminate against you based on the color of your skin or race. But Upwork is now even more of an international company and in many countries, having a photo is required when applying for a job, and it has been studied many times over and it is a very known fact that this is where lots of bias lies. 

Also, as someone that has lived across 5 continents, I know that many countries don't see it as such because their countries are very homogenous and they can get away with it and it is not contested, by and large.

So, yes, for me, it is a discriminatory policy they currently have here, and it should be challenged every step of the way until it is changed. Upwork could easily verify workers privately to confirm they are real as they did before. I have also had here clients attempt to question my experience and proficiency despite being a top-rated performer here, and in my experience, they feel that they can say this to someone that is of color. But keep your head up and keep speaking up because it is the only way it will change. 


I do not doubt that there are some people who feel discriminated against because of the color of their skin or because of their nationality. This happens and will continue to happen as long as there are people who consider themselves superior.


That said, there are people of all colors and nationalities here and many have had a great career regardless of their profile picture.

 

You don't seem to have a problem with your color, which makes me happy.
And what you say about questioning your experience and competence ...
**Edited for community guidelines**

You have missed many parts of this thread, apparently. 

 

I have never had a problem with my skin color. I am not talking about ME. I am talking about those that discriminate based on skin color believing they are superior. 

 

And the fact that Upwork blocked some of your comments speaks volumes about your experience in speaking on this issue as well, I might add. 

 

And to be very clear, no one said it is not possible to have a great career despite the color of your skin. What I am stressing is that there are barriers in play that should NOT be that are making it more difficult for POC to reach that achievement.

 

triston
Community Member

I am aware that we are not Upwork employees. I know what the term ‘freelancer’ means. However, as I stated before, Upwork is an American company with many freelancers from that country that know implicitly that requiring your ethnicity and race for applying for a position is inherently racist. And for me to explain that to anyone not American is usually a non-starter because their countries are nowhere near as diverse and they are nowhere close to rectifying the problem in their respective countries. And ‘proving’ racism in most cases is just as difficult as ‘proving’ sexual harassment. There is a lot of grey area there and that is how it has always been. Before becoming ‘Upwork’, Odesk verified freelancers and that they were in fact ‘real’, so there is really no need to have people include their photos and display their race (or perceived race based on a photo) when that can be handle in-house. It is clear that Upwork is doing the least to get the most in this circumstance.



And while I do fare better than most people on this platform, that does not mean I am turning a blind eye to what is going on here. I don’t believe in saying nothing simply because I am prospering.



That is what activism looks like. If you see something, you do something.



 


Triston B wrote:

And for me to explain that to anyone not American is usually a non-starter because their countries are nowhere near as diverse and they are nowhere close to rectifying the problem in their respective countries. 


How patronising. America is nowhere near the most ethnically diverse country in the world; it's not even in the top 50. As for the rest of your post, since you only repeated your previous arguments and didn't address any of the points that I raised, I have nothing further to say.

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