Utter confusion about agencies

andy-ingham · ‎05-06-2018

There seems to be a great deal of conflicting information on the creation and use of Agencies. I have recently started an agency including my long term freelancing account. My aim was to bring another new user on board to help with my upwork, I've even agreed this with a few of the clients I currently have. I assumed from the basic research I did, and the 'simple' guides, that this would be possible. I therefore duly paid my agency membership, and set up the agency. Pretty much since then, everything I thought would be the case isn't.

My findings since I paid my fee, and please put me right I'm mistaken on any of these.

1) You CANNOT bring individual contacts to an agency. You have to end them and restart them, at great hassle to you and the client, oh, and you'll lose the 5% upwork rate you've earned over years of working with a client.

2) You are not free for other agency members to work on contracts won by the agency, as you have to put an individual contractor forward for each role.

3) My 'extended' research has shown there is a great deal of mis-information on this subject. I've found some very unhelpful posts, some 'it's simple, just read this usless article' posts, and others actually advising people NOT to work for agencies.

My question is, what is the point of agencies? It won't do what I need, as a the potential 'software house' model where I pass work between contractors as required. It does seem, however, to fit the 'scamming middle man' model where cheap labour can be sold at a high price. I assume this is why there are the warnings not to work for agencies.

Very disapointing. Looks like I'll be taking these contracts off Upwork.

holymell · ‎05-06-2018

You're right. There really isn't a point. That is exactly why clients don't like to work with agencies; they prefer to work with individuals. Agencies do have a poor reputation for being middlemen. And yes, because you're starting a new account, you won't be working with the your clients from the account that earned that 5% so you would have to start all over.

You're not allowed to take clients off Upwork. Even if you leave Upwork. Unless you've been working with them for two years. You signed the terms of service agreeing that you would pay Upwork a certain amount of money and you're still bound to the terms of service even if you leave. If you don't leave Upwork, you'll get banned for taking work out of the platform and you still have to pay Upwork their fee.

What you are allowed to do is subcontract, so long as the client knows that's what you're doing. And as long as you don't have the subcontractor operating from your account. Unless something has changed, that is.

Good luck.

Also, you're probably being told to read the terms of service, which you agreed to when you signed up here. All of this is in there.

bobafett999 · ‎05-06-2018

@Melissa C wrote:

What you are allowed to do is subcontract, so long as the client knows that's what you're doing. And as long as you don't have the subcontractor operating from your account. Unless something has changed, that is.

But wouldn't that be uneconomical? He gets money, Upwork gets their cut. He hires a subcontractor pays them and Upwork gets cut from subcontractor fees.

petra_r · ‎05-06-2018

@Melissa C wrote:

What you are allowed to do is subcontract, so long as the client knows that's what you're doing.

Not on hourly contracts.

The OPs contracts seem to be hourly.

kochubei_valeria · ‎05-06-2018

Hi Andrew,

Sorry to hear that you found that the agency set up doesn't fit your needs. On Upwork agencies are used by many teams of freelancers in order to streamline bidding process, manage contracts and payments. A few things I'd like to note and confirm.

- It's correct that typically each agency freelancer who's going to work on the project has to be hired by the client on an individual contract. It's against the ToS for anybody but the freelancer hired on the contract to work and log time on an hourly contract. Fixed-priced contracts can be subcontracted, and the agency member hired for the contract or the business manager will need to discuss any details directly with the client.

- Business manager can send proposals and communicate with clients on behalf of agency freelancers. Many freelancers prefer this set up because it frees up more time for them to spend working on contracts.

- If a freelancer is hired under an agency all payments will go to the agency's account. Agency owner is then responsible for paying their agency freelancer directly. Some freelancers prefer for the agency to take care of withdrawals and payments as it simplifies the process for them and may even save them some money on withdrawal fees.

- A contract can't be moved from an individual freelancer account to an agency account. A freelancer will have to be re-hired for a different contract under the agency.

~ Valeria

dsmgdesign · ‎07-30-2019

Valeria K wrote:

- It's correct that typically each agency freelancer who's going to work on the project has to be hired by the client on an individual contract. It's against the ToS for anybody but the freelancer hired on the contract to work and log time on an hourly contract. Fixed-priced contracts can be subcontracted, and the agency member hired for the contract or the business manager will need to discuss any details directly with the client.

Hi, Valeria,

I'm confused about this comment in regards to agencies. I know that freelancers are free to subcontract to other freelancers on fixed-price contracts. But for agenices, I thought the agency gets paid for hourly contracts and then they must pay each agency member off the platform...I was led to believe that was true for hourly contracts, not just fixed-price contracta. Is that correct? So don't understand your point about being individual contracts for hourly.

AveryO · ‎07-30-2019

Hi David,

As part of our Terms of Service, freelancers (whether agency freelancers or not) can subcontract fixed-price contracts (provided the Client is aware that the project will be subcontracted). On hourly contracts, only hired freelancers can work and log time to their own Work Diary.

Regardless of the type of contract an agency freelancer works on, the agency freelancer will be paid off platform, as all earnings on the agency's contracts go through the Agency Admin/Business Manager's account.

I hope I understood your question correctly. Please let me know if my response didn't answer your question.

~ Avery

petra_r · ‎07-30-2019

David S M wrote:
.I was led to believe that was true for hourly contracts,

"Led to believe" by whom?

Absolutely not. Only the freelancer (through agency or individually) who was hired by the client is ever allowed to track / log hours. As a client can not "hire an agency" and an agency can not log or track time (how would it, agencies have no tracker or work diary to log time on etc) what Valeria said is true for agencies as well.

Client hires an agency freelancer (or several) through the agency.
The freelancer who was hired by the client through the agency works and tracks their time on their own account with their own tracker.
The client pays the agency.
The agency pays the agency freelancer outside Upwork.
You don't seem to have an agency and aren't associated with one?

David S M wrote:
I know that freelancers are free to subcontract to other freelancers on fixed-price contracts.

... with the client's knowledge and consent, of course.

d1800978 · ‎09-28-2019

Valeria K wrote:

- It's correct that typically each agency freelancer who's going to work on the project has to be hired by the client on an individual contract. It's against the ToS for anybody but the freelancer hired on the contract to work and log time on an hourly contract.

Hello Valeria,

Could you please be able to share the clause of the ToS where this criteria is mentioned? And what would be the consequence if agency indeed distributed work among it's freelancers after accepting an hourly contract in the name of only 1 of it's freelancer?

kochubei_valeria · ‎09-30-2019

Hi Majid,

Please, refer to my reply to your post here.

~ Valeria