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donald-price
Community Member

Why is it necessary to publish my graduation date in my profile?

Why is it necessary to publish my graduation date? May I kindly ask to have it removed from my profile? As a person of a certain age, I am finding it increasingly difficult to get work because of this. Most Experts agree that if your over 40 you should probably not include your age on your resume. What is your policy agains age discrimination? I don't mind Upshot knowing that I graduated Art School in 1982. I bought my first Macintosh in 1986. I learned to use the first version of photoshop while it was still in Beta. But I do mind sharing that information with the world if it is not pertinent. There is a lot of age discrimination in the larger full time job market. Consider my experience as a plus not as a negative because I am an experienced professional, not an "old person who doesn't get it". 

I appreciate the opinions of fellow Upwork members, but I am really interested in getting an official explanation for this requirement. Thanks in advance!

 

ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Don,

 

We want to build and maintain trustworthy and transparent marketplace on Upwork. Typically our testing and surveys show that they more clients know about the freelancer's professional background, the more likely they are to hire them. That's why we are asking freelancers as much information about their education and experience as possible.

 

I'll also forward your feedback and concern to the team.

~ Valeria
Upwork

View solution in original post

26 REPLIES 26
jojomo
Community Member

Hi Donald,

 

In my opinion, the more experience you have, the better! As a freelancer, I don't believe age matters as much -- I really don't think this would impact you negatively at all. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm both a freelancer and client and I would rather hire an older, more experienced freelancer than a young, inexperienced one.

 

Anyway, just my 2 cents 🙂

sharonliu
Community Member

I think in some trades, more experience is definitely a bonus. You have to remember that some young people who are less experienced envy those who already know how to do the job. Especially if the more experienced person is in good health.

 

Even in trades where youth is highly valued, such as music, you still see older people doing well. It may be possible to move into a position that is related to the youth-conscious position. For example, in music it may be possible to move into production.

 

As a web designer, you can stay ahead of the game by updating your skills.

Thanks Sharon and Joëlle,

Your opinions and experiences are much appreciated. It is heartening to hear. 1 I have worked in the music industry (when people werent downloading it for free... LOL) But the difference between a freelancer having 10 years and 25 years can seem oversized, 10+ years should be more than enough for a proposal without having to disclose how many gray hairs I actually have...

 

I am still hoping to hear an official explanation as to why it is necessary?

Hi Donald,

 

The Dates Attended fields are required when adding Education information to a profile. Unfortunately, there is no way to bypass that.

We don't allow discrimination on the basis of age on Upwork as recorded in Upwork Terms of Use. If you come across any signs of such discrimination, please report the user to us. 

There are a lot of older freelancers on Upwork including professionals who have retired from their full time jobs and are now using Upwork to stay busy and have additional income. We see a lot of them finding success because of their experience spanning decades.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Hi Valeria,

Thanks for your reply. Everyone is being very kind and providing there own persopective. But what everyone is observing is subjective. I'm looking for an offical answer.

Not to sound insistent but why is it required? What is the legal and financial justification for Upwork. Why provide the tools to alow others to discriminate?

Thanks,

Don

Donald, I'm with you (both in spirit and in the 40+ club). It's one thing to provide dates for your profile, but another to display them. It's become commonplace to omit dates from resumes in the brick and mortar world since it's illegal to ask someone about their age in an interview. If asked for a birthdate on hiring paperwork you must provide it, but during that "first glance" process it's a no-no. 

Thanks Mellssa!

Glad to have someone who understands my puzzlement. What are my chances of getting an official response here from Upworks mangagement?


@Donald J. P wrote:

Thanks Mellssa!

Glad to have someone who understands my puzzlement. What are my chances of getting an official response here from Upworks mangagement?


 You already got one, from Valeria. Unfortunately, they're required. Either you can learn to live with it or you can choose not to add your education.

 

I doubt it has anywhere near the impact you seem to think it will...

I'm about the same age as the OP.  And yes, from time to time people do notice it.  But the considerations (potential levels of sickness, for example) that might make an employer think twice simply don't apply here. 

 

It's swung the balance in my favour more than once. 

caroldd
Community Member

I too do not like having anything to do with my "age" showing anywhere.  Discrimination is most often not overt but subtle in that they take one look at your profile, see you are older by seeing the dates of graduation or employment history, and keep moving on.  That is reality.  It's not anything they would actually write for fear of lawsuits, but is very real in the bypassing of you for someone younger.  

 

I have not told anyone my age since I was 23!  Simply because it is too easy to pigeonhole a person by their own preconceived notions and experience of what a person of X age is and can or cannot do.  Stereotyping and discrimination because I am a woman is bad enough, I don't want to add age to that also.

 

In the brick and mortar world, it is illegal to ask a person's age or race before hiring.  The only thing that an interviewer can do is make a note during the interview on what he observes regarding race.  Which is what happens with the requirement to have a headshot on the Upwork profile.

 

I don't want to be bypassed because they 'think' I am too old for the job without considering my other qualifications.  Age really has nothing to do with the jobs posted here.

Carol D, I couldnt agree more.

I know I promised Valeria K that I would go away and I had almost forgotten about my original post of a year ago, however this is a pressing civil rights issue. Thanks to you Carol D and others the issue is getting some attention. I am still waiting for an official explanation for Upwork and their legal department as to why they think age discrimination is a good idea on Upwork, particularly if its not allowed anywhere else in the US. 

Discrimination is illegal and isn't allowed in HR departments and shouldn't be allowed here in cyberspace. Upwork doesnt require people to identify their gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, but somehow age discrimination is ok?

I am a card carrying member of AARP and know that this organization lobbies congress and state and local governments advocating for Senior Rights and ending age discrimination. Why would Upwork invite this kind of legal scruitiny. The fix is simple; either end potential age discrimination or face potential legal consequences. 

Useful links for anyone (Including Upwork Management):

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/age.cfm

https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/discrimination/agedisc

https://www.aarp.org/work/employee-rights/info-02-2009/age_discrimination_fact_sheet.html

I kindly thank everyone for their thoughts & opinions. I know my graduation date is required. I will learn to live with it or not.  I just thought I could get a straight answer. 

One last time. I will go away after this, I promise. I thought my question was quite simple.

 

Why? What is the reason?

 

I live in a democracy (or so I am led to believe... LOL) I believe in questioning authority when it is reasonable to do so.

 

Kind regards,

Don

Don,

 

We want to build and maintain trustworthy and transparent marketplace on Upwork. Typically our testing and surveys show that they more clients know about the freelancer's professional background, the more likely they are to hire them. That's why we are asking freelancers as much information about their education and experience as possible.

 

I'll also forward your feedback and concern to the team.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Thank you Valeria!

 

I appreciate the answer and I appreciate the offer to forward my concerns to your team. I would be thrilled if you could keep us posted. 

 

Just a thought though, based on the logic about providing hiring folks as much information as possible about the freelancers education and experience as possible, I would add "if I were King" that the freelancers age is 40+ and has 10 to 20+ years of experience. That should more than suffice, no?

Lets keep everyone honest.

 

Thanks again!

Don

 

This is a major sticking point for me. Asking someone's age in a job interview is illegal, and asking someone's graduation year is tantamount to asking their age. Please remove the requirement of having to enter a graduation year. I'm not sure I want to complete my profile because of it.


@jason H wrote:

This is a major sticking point for me. Asking someone's age in a job interview is illegal, and asking someone's graduation year is tantamount to asking their age. Please remove the requirement of having to enter a graduation year. I'm not sure I want to complete my profile because of it.


Honestly, I think you're giving this too much weight. I don't believe clients scroll down that far to look at education and work history, and if they do, so what? What they see in the first few sentences of your overview and your skill title are more important. Your photo is an obvious give that "spring chicken" days are over (same here), but my hair color hasn't stopped clients from hiring me. And I may be wrong about this, but I don't believe you have to list every school or job. Go back to the '90s and call it good.

 

There are other things we hate on our profiles more - those maps for instance.   Apparently Upwork woke up and smelled the privacy coffee ... I'm happy to see that the map is gone. Guess I missed the announcement.

 

It's just not going to change, no matter how many times we ask. Upwork pretty much ignores the majority wishes of it's freelancers, no matter how in the wrong we think they might be.

 

ETA: There are millions of us freelancers here, but not of clients. Not finishing your profile because of this issue is not going to give Upwork pause, sorry to say.

petra_r
Community Member

 


@Virginia F wrote:

There are other things we hate on our profiles more - those maps for instance.


 What maps? 😉

 

mtngigi
Community Member


@Petra R wrote:

 


@Virginia F wrote:

There are other things we hate on our profiles more - those maps for instance.


 What maps? 😉

 


Is this a Christmas miracle? When did this happen?

 

Yes Virginia, there are no maps.

 

 

 

 

Guess I need to look at my profile more often. 🙂

petra_r
Community Member


@Virginia F wrote:

@Petra R wrote:

 


@Virginia F wrote:

There are other things we hate on our profiles more - those maps for instance.


 What maps? 😉

 


Is this a Christmas miracle? When did this happen?



 I noticed it a few weeks ago 🙂

mtngigi
Community Member


@Petra R wrote:

@Virginia F wrote:

@Petra R wrote:

 


@Virginia F wrote:

There are other things we hate on our profiles more - those maps for instance.


 What maps? 😉

 


Is this a Christmas miracle? When did this happen?



 I noticed it a few weeks ago 🙂


 Ah ... I wish UW could figure out a way to make announcements more front and center. I'm going to try and find out if it was announced.

yitwail
Community Member

Though I may be in the minority, I happened to like my map. Maybe it's Upwork version of a lump of coal. Cat Sad

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
mtngigi
Community Member


@John K wrote:

Though I may be in the minority, I happened to like my map. Maybe it's Upwork version of a lump of coal. Cat Sad

 

 

Awww - here you go, John. Merry Christmas!

jk.jpg

 

 


 

re: "Why is it necessary to publish my graduation date in my profile? Why? What is the reason?"

 

I don't know.

 

Who cares?

 

Who even looks at that stuff, anyway? I have hired over 80 different freelancers on Upwork. I have never looked at that section. Maybe some clients do. Maybe lots do. But I doubt very many people even care.

Well maybe you don't. Congratulations. Maybe you are an exemplar of
virtuous, conscientious capitalism. But our history teaches us that that
capitalism without laws is neither.
If corporations can discriminate and get away with it, they will. That is
why there are laws to protect everyone.

Put yourself in my shoes, or in my 60 year old skin. Would you like it if
you were turned down for something because of your age, not even
employment, lets say a loan, a home, or apartment? Worse, if they turned
you down for your gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation. Would you be
suspicious if they asked you those questions when you applied???

Even if what your implying is that only a few clients discriminate, why
give them a reason to?
Its wrong and its illegal.

I know it's been a while since your OP, but I came to this thread because of this exact reason. I was in the same situation and almost didn't complete the education profile. Not only are they forcing me to add my graduation year, one of my schools is not listed. Instead, I found a work-around and listed my education with a certification and used the certification year. I'm interested to know if the people who don't have a problem listing their grad year will feel the same way when they get older.

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