Mar 15, 2019 08:33:30 AM Edited Mar 15, 2019 12:56:49 PM by Heather H
I made some mistakes with my client - can you help me figure out how to fix it now, and do better next time? We set up a contract for 5 milestones over 5 days, 10 widgets per milestone per day, We did this because the client wanted to get them in batches as we went, rather than all of them a the end.
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Mar 15, 2019 08:54:06 AM Edited Mar 15, 2019 08:55:40 AM by Petra R
Heather H wrote:I made some mistakes with my client - can you help me figure out how to fix it now, and do better next time? We set up a contract for 5 milestones over 5 days, 10 widgets per milestone per day, We did this because the client wanted to get them in batches as we went, rather than all of them a the end.
- Day 5 + 1 (today): resubmitted Milestone 3 for approval this morning. Still nothing from client.
Do NOT resubmit milestone 3.
You get paid the funds in Escrow 14 days after the last time (!) you submitted the milestone automatically. Every time you resubmit, you reset the 14 day timer.
Unfortunately, if you have done any work in advance, anything that was not funded, you won't get paid for if the client stays gone.
Clients have 14 days to approve a milestone or ask for changes. If they do neither, the milestone is ato-approved.
Mar 15, 2019 08:54:06 AM Edited Mar 15, 2019 08:55:40 AM by Petra R
Heather H wrote:I made some mistakes with my client - can you help me figure out how to fix it now, and do better next time? We set up a contract for 5 milestones over 5 days, 10 widgets per milestone per day, We did this because the client wanted to get them in batches as we went, rather than all of them a the end.
- Day 5 + 1 (today): resubmitted Milestone 3 for approval this morning. Still nothing from client.
Do NOT resubmit milestone 3.
You get paid the funds in Escrow 14 days after the last time (!) you submitted the milestone automatically. Every time you resubmit, you reset the 14 day timer.
Unfortunately, if you have done any work in advance, anything that was not funded, you won't get paid for if the client stays gone.
Clients have 14 days to approve a milestone or ask for changes. If they do neither, the milestone is ato-approved.
Mar 15, 2019 08:59:52 AM by Heather H
Thanks - that makes sense. Lesson learned - don't submit work if the money isn't in escrow ... don't lead the milestones, and don't resubmit them once completed. Thank you!
Mar 15, 2019 08:54:59 AM by Anthony H
What's a widget?
I thought they were similar to doo-dads or gizmos or gadgets.
Anyway, welcome to the waiting game. I have spent the past week waiting for a half dozen clients to get back to me, approve payment, fix their websites so I can work, get approval from HR to hire me, get done with their meetings, call back, write back, etc. etc.
The only thing you really can do is this: Start applying for other jobs. This one will just have to run its course and you probably can't do much about it without sounding pesky and annoying. (Yes, I'm sure there's an ideal way to be pesky and annoying -- the PC way to shine while you whine -- but you seem like you have all the diplomacy skills you'll ever need. Remember, when you tell them to jump off a cliff, always do it politely.)
So, just get three more jobs and let this stew in its juices until the glacier starts moving again. (Too many metaphors? My bad.)
Because after the client finally does what they should be doing, Upwork will start to slow things down even further, because Upwork likes to put your money in a holding pattern, so they can admire it for a while before letting you have it.
You might consider only doing work through Upwork's hourly tracking system, which is supposed to guarantee you get paid. I'm sure that's not any faster, but at least you don't have to worry about the funds eventually showing up. I've never used that system, so maybe someone else here can give you some pointers on that.
Good luck.
Mar 15, 2019 09:02:35 AM Edited Mar 15, 2019 09:32:54 AM by Heather H
Thanks! "widget" is just what I used as a work-unit noun, rather than bog down my question with an unnecessarily technical description of the specific units of work I was doing for the client. And thank you for your guidance on not obsessing over it! (I totally want to obsess over it.) I will do as you suggest instead, start other projects and let this percolate. Thank you!
Mar 15, 2019 09:08:38 AM by Phyllis G
Anthony H wrote:
You might consider only doing work through Upwork's hourly tracking system, which is supposed to guarantee you get paid. I'm sure that's not any faster, but at least you don't have to worry about the funds eventually showing up. I've never used that system, so maybe someone else here can give you some pointers on that.
Neither a fixed-price nor hourly contract is bullet-proof in terms of payment protection for the FL. Each has its pros and cons, depending on the nature of the work and the project timeline. The key, in every case, is to use the contract as it's meant to be used. Stack that on top of solid client vetting and alert project and client management skills, and instances of losing money will be few and far between.
Mar 15, 2019 09:01:47 AM by Phyllis G
You're not an idiot, but yes, you may be in a pickle of your own making. (Any thriving FL who claims she's never done this or something similar, is not being truthful.) When you say "activate" a milestone, do you mean fund it? Because if the milestones were all funded and you've submitted the completed work properly, then you'll get paid after 14 days (+ 5-day security period) after each submission or whenever the client approves, whichever occurs first. But if you've submitted work against unfunded milestones, then you must depend on this client who may just be careless or may be unscrupulous enough to screw you out of the remaining fee. If that happens, then you may be able to assert ownership over the work product that was not paid for. In the case of written material that's published online, you can file a take-down order. I don't know anything about widgets and what recourse is available with those, but someone who does know is likely to chime in here.
I haven't experienced this dilemma but I've been FLing for a long time. If it's an unfunded milestone situation, I would send the client a "wrap-up" message: cordial but business-like tone; ask them to confirm receipt of everything you've sent and that it is all satisfactory; request they fund and approve milestones 3-5. If no response in 2 biz days, I'd send another message, again cordial but business-like, reminding them that per UW's ToS, they do not own and cannot use work product that they have not paid for. At that point, it's all a matter of how successfully you can shame/bully them into paying you. If they don't, then you still have the opportunity to leave candid feedback (along the lines of their taking advantage of your willingness to work on an urgent timeline and then stiffing you).
Going forward, avoid this situation by playing hardball on milestones: no funded milestone, no work. Period.
Mar 15, 2019 09:14:00 AM by Heather H
Thanks - I'll play hardball on funded milestones from now on. I guess that's what I mean when I call it "active" - if a milestone doesn't show up in the "active milestones" list and won't let me attach work to it or submit it for payment, then I guess that probably means it's unfunded. I foolishly assumed that since the contract was for $xx, that was the amount that had been funded. This is only my second contract on Upwork and my first milestone-based project.
The good thing about hard lessons is that you never forget them. Thanks!
Mar 15, 2019 11:17:44 AM by Preston H
re: "I'll play hardball on funded milestones from now on"
Heather: You have the right attitude, and I'm glad that you have learned more about how fixed-price contracts work.
I don't think you need to think of this as "playing hardball."
If you go up to the counter at McDonald's and order a hamburger, they're not going to hand over the hamburger until you pay for it. They don't consider this "playing hardball."
That's just how it's done.
With Upwork's escrow system in place, it's just silly for any client to ask you to do work without funding the milestone first. Any client who would do so is simply uninformed (in which case you may inform them) or a scammer, in which case you don't want to have anything to do with them.
Mar 15, 2019 11:18:17 AM Edited Mar 15, 2019 11:19:55 AM by Preston H
re: "I foolishly assumed that since the contract was for $xx, that was the amount that had been funded."
Don't be hard on yourself. LOTS of new freelancers have made the same mistake.
Mar 15, 2019 03:42:21 PM by Kathy T
Heather H wrote:Thanks - I'll play hardball on funded milestones from now on. I guess that's what I mean when I call it "active" - if a milestone doesn't show up in the "active milestones" list and won't let me attach work to it or submit it for payment, then I guess that probably means it's unfunded. I foolishly assumed that since the contract was for $xx, that was the amount that had been funded. This is only my second contract on Upwork and my first milestone-based project.
The good thing about hard lessons is that you never forget them. Thanks!
Something else to be aware of also. Make sure that escrow is FULLY funded either for the entire job or for each milestone as they come up BEFORE you start work. Even though a contract may have $XX amount and the client agrees to that payment, it's whatever is funded into escrow is what you will get. For example, Payment for first 10 widgets was agreed to be $100 but only $10 dollars was funded. That's all you will get, $10. Doesn't matter what amount the contract was and it doesn't matter what the client agreed to.
May 26, 2022 01:17:59 AM by Hitesh T
work is already done client was not responding for my work and he said work is ok after he ran for 5 days so i request for miestone release daily he. was seeing my message but not responsding so today he did request for changes but work is already done and he is write message not working but all things working perfecly and just wasting time this client is cheater i checked his review same he did for some another freelancer so now i again did request for payment and he is not giving reason what is reaming or what is not working just writing not working so what i have to do now any suggestion ? i have all proof work is done and i did some extra work to in free for him
May 26, 2022 04:42:01 AM by Annie Jane B
Hi Hitesh,
I am sorry to hear about your contract. I reached out to the team handling your dispute case and shared your report. One of our agents will follow up with you on your ticket to assist you further. You can access your support tickets here.