Building demos of core features from specs - no response to proposals?

[jlivesay]

Hello, so I have been away from this site for about five years or so.  Recently I have been looking for a new client/project, and so I have been finding fixed price jobs with something approaching specifications, and building little demos showing a core part of the spec that I then submit as youtube links with the proposal.

Since I have come back, so far I have done three of these, and none of the people have acknowledged or responded.  The response that I got was actually from someone who I just asked a question to rather than making any demo for.

One other aspect of this that I am concerned is hurting me is that although I have some very successful projects, I have a couple of fairly poor ratings for a few of them.  Nothing I can really say that would not just sound like an excuse, but obviously I wish I had not taken those engagements.

So what I am trying to figure out now is this:

• is it fairly common for programmers to build little demos like this and include youtube links in proposals on this site these days?
• is it common for proposals that have actually got demos implemented of core features to be completely ignored without reply?
• maybe people are just really unimpressed with the demos.. i have been focusing on just the core implementation/technical challenge, and not anything flashy
• do you guys think that its just that my ratings or something else about my profile are making employers ignore me?  if so I may be screwed because Upwork almost has a monopoly on this type of thing.. but maybe I can get the person I have been working for for the last five years to write a testimonial
• these jobs, since they included something like requirements specs and real budgets, were pretty popular, with 20 to 50 proposals. maybe there is just a short window where the job has a few proposals, and after that they are kind of saturated? I am not sure if they are actually even viewing the videos of my demos.

Here are my little videos of demos that I built recently for specific projects:  **Edited for Community Guidelines** 

Thanks a lot for any advice.

[jlivesay]

Why was it edited? These are programming demos, not design.. so what is the rule?  And why not explain the rule?  The youtube links gave context to my question.

[prestonhunter]

re: "is it fairly common for programmers to build little demos like this and include youtube links in proposals on this site these days?"

No.

[prestonhunter]

re: "I am not sure if they are actually even viewing the videos of my demos."

I can only speak for myself. As a client who has hired over 100 freelancers on Upwork, I am definitely not going to click on links to "demo videos" when hiring a programmer.

[jlivesay · Accepted solution]

I appreciate that someone gave me some information. May I please know why you would not click on a demo video link? I really have no idea why that would be the case. In one case I also uploaded the video as an attachment. Maybe there is some problem with links in proposals? And if so, that should not apply to a video attachment.

The reasons I create the demos are multiple. First, employers have many different bids. They will want to know that the person they hire can understand and complete the programming tasks. By finding a key part of the specification and implementing it at least partially, this reduces significantly the risk associated with accepting my bid.

It also means that I have a concrete baseline for judging the communication and other characteristics of working with the person. And on a more basic level, helps to ensure that I understand their requirements, and increases the chance that they may reveal "gotchas" that they neglected to mention in their project description. Because I have to evaluate each project carefully as well before I take it.

Now, to make sure it's clear, this is programming work and not design work. I do not do graphic designs. Functional features requiring somewhat unique code. So these demos are not something the employer can use without engaging me since they do not have the code and the nature of the tasks are not visual. Of course I would never give away free work.

[prestonhunter]

re: "May I please know why you would not click on a demo video link?"

That is not part of the established workflow for posting jobs and hiring freelancers.

I use the information available to me on the Upwork website to make hiring decisions. I don't leave that environment and use other tools or visit other websites.

[jlivesay]

OK, so if I am understanding correctly, you are concerned that those links were an attempt to go offsite or go around Upwork or something.

So as I explained, they were just videos, not links to some other site that wasn't youtube, and I have also included one as an attachment to download.  So perhaps that would be acceptable, if I exclude the links?

The other concern you may have, I am guessing, which I tried to assuage in the last message, is that perhaps I would be giving away work for free.  For example, if I were making proposals on visual design work, videos and images directly related to the post could be interpreted as "spec work" -- i.e. delivering work with the hope that it might be paid for.  And of course if this was the case, it could not be permitted, because otherwise the employers would be able to obtain work for free on sort of a contest basis and.. it would not work out for people.

But as I said, no work has been delivered to the client, but simply videos showing demos of functional programs relevant to the project that are not visual in nature and so could not be 'lifted' by the employer at that stage.  They are just there to reduce risk for both parties.

Anyway, it seems that perhaps my question may have caused you some slight distress, and I apologize if that was the case, and appreciate your information.

[prestonhunter]

I don't think those links violate Upwork rules in any way. I am simply not interested in complicating my hiring process.

I can only speak for myself on this matter. I don't go to other sites or look at attachments. I look at information in a freelancer's profile page and I look at a freelancer's portfolio of appropriate. Hiring an illustrator? I rely mainly on the portfolio. Hiring a Linux expert to install SDK for a new RDBMS? Not going to look at portfolio for that.

I am just one person telling how you what I look at and what I don't look at when I hire freelancers.

If making demo videos is something that works for you, then keep doing it. As a freelancer, I have never made a demo video to send along with a proposal. But I am not in precisely the same niche as you, nor are we at the same experience level. So what works for me isn't necessarily what works best for someone else.

[jlivesay]

Just to clarify about the experience level, I have been programming since age seven, and am 43 years old.  So off and on for about 36 years.  I appreciate your replying to my message, but you have made an incorrect assumption that you have more experienced than I.