Solved: Clients changes, denied and did not honor our...

codemy · ‎05-18-2021

9 days ago, I got a job from a client who sent an offer of $300 which is meant to be released the moment I finished the first phase of the job before creating another milestone. But when I finished the phase the clients denied the fact that we had an agreement and kept saying he will pay me until the whole job is done which I have no problem with.
Our conversation was through calls and I did not recorded our conversation which I would have used to defend myself.
But the moment I asked him about the first pay, he has been rubbishing my works and he kept saying I did not do anything where as have done the works of 20 days in 9 days.
I woke up to see an email from upwork that the client has requested to cancel the contract but my fear is if I agree to cancel the contract he will definitely leave a negative feedback on my profile, though I haven't got paid since the project started.
I have proof that works has been going on non-stop on his project but since it's my first time on upwork I don't know if the dispute department will carefully review the work done.
Please I need an advice on what to do. It's been 10 days today and I've done the work of 20 days already and he doesn't want to pay me until the project is done which is against our agreement but I gave him my consent that he should pay me when I'm done with Project not to work and see that he has requested to cancel the contract.
Thansk.

prestonhunter · ‎05-19-2021

Use an HOURLY contract and get paid weekly for all of the work that you do.

Or use SMALL fixed-price contracts/milestones.

If you aren't familiar with a client, do NOT agree to a large initial fixed-price milestone. Because you don't know if the client is honorable or not.

This is GOOD FOR THE CLIENT as well.

A wise client doesn't commit $2000 to a fixed-price escrow payment when hiring a freelancer he hasn't worked with before.

Instead, fund a $50 payment for the first step.

If you like the work, then fund another payment, and then another, reviewing the work each time. You can create increasingly large milestones once you see that the freelancer does work that you like.

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JoanneP · ‎05-18-2021

Hi Daniel,

I'd like to check this for you. Could you please confirm the contract ID of the project you're referring to? You can find the Contract ID by clicking on the name of the contract and then navigating to the Terms & Settings tab.

I noticed that you are working on Fixed-Price contracts. Please know that when working on Fixed-Price contracts, you must only start working once the client has funded the milestone with the agreed price. Please make sure to also submit your work for that milestone using the "Submit work for payment" button.

You might want to read the following help articles to learn more about how Fixed Price contracts work:

Fixed-Price Protection

Get Paid for Fixed-Price Contracts

~ Joanne

codemy · ‎05-19-2021

Thanks for your response, the agreement was to design the entire template of an ecommerce platform and after that he will released the first milestone.
When I was done I told him about it and submitted the work for review which afterwards the client ought to released the first payment but that's when he said he never said that he is going to pay after designing the entire template for the project before I will start doing the backend work and that I should look at the content of the agreement.
He denied everything overnight, it was so painful that I have to experience that and I have proof that the work was done accordingly but the proof of our conversation I do not have.
Here is the contract ID: 27024561

g_vasilevski · ‎05-19-2021

Hi Daniel,

I'm sorry to hear about the bad experience you've had. I checked your contract and I can see that your client has requested a refund and the contract was closed.

Please keep in mind that you have 7 days to respond to the refund request. You have the option to approve the refund or open a dispute.
To review the refund request go to your contract room > RESPOND TO REQUEST > and chose the options on how you would like to proceed. Thank you.

~ Goran

prestonhunter · ‎05-19-2021

Daniel, this is a painful experience.

Unfortunately, Upwork can't police this. Upwork can't monitor the work we do and force a client to pay when we have finished the task.

There is an option for a freelancer to dispute in a situation like this.

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068528-Dispute-Non-Release-of-a-Milestone-Payment

This is important. You should understand this process.

BUT: You do not necessarily need to use disputes.

My advice: Proactively plan to manage this potential problem WITHOUT Upwork's help, and without disputes.

With new clients you haven't worked with before, accept only small milestone to start out with. Only an hour or two of work. Test the client to see if he pays as expected. If you do the work and the client doesn't pay, then you can just wait. Do no more work. Click the Submit button and wait. If the client does not pay, if the client requests changes in order to block payment, then you can just walk away. You can close the contract yourself. Yes, you did some work that you weren't paid for, but it was a small amount of work. You don't need to waste any more of your time.

If a client pays as expected, then you can accept increasingly large milestones.

codemy · ‎05-19-2021

Thanks for your response, actually I did a whole lot of work.
He wanted me to build a multi-vendor ecommerce system from scratch. We agreed that he will released the first milestone the moment I'm done with the whole of the frontend work.
And he approved every process of the work, so the moment I was done I told him and he gave me the go-ahead to start working on the backend that was when I asked him to approved the milestone which I also submitted the work, so the payment was in review mode for 9day he never told me to make any adjustments and he never said anything not to work up this morning to see that he has cancelled the contract.
But my question now is, if I agreed to end the Project without getting paid, will he be able to give a review or not and also if I dispute the milestone will his review appear on my profile because he hasn't paid me for all the works that have done.
Thanks.

e6e1c3fa · ‎05-19-2021

This is the funnest Scenarios. I dont think client is bad....

So did you agree to build multi vendor marketplace for 300?
He released first milestone and funded to the second milestone right?

Anyhow, something should be broken so Client asked you to remove poops on his website?

...

codemy · ‎05-19-2021

Thanks for your response, the agreement was for him to release the $300 the moment I'm done with the frontend and he will create another $300 for the next stage.
The budget is $1000 which I'm okay with but we both agreed that he will be releasing the milestone at each stages of development.
So when I was done with the first stage that's when he refuses to release or approve the payment and the next thing is for me to woke and see that he has cancel the contract.
Since the beginning of the project till date, he is always pleased with my work, he never complained, there is one time that he asked me to change the color of the platform which I did and after he told me he was pleased with the work that I can start doing the backend.

He now said, he will release the whole $1000 when the project is done which I have no problem with but I as I woke this morning I then saw an email that he has cancelled the contract.
So this is the first time I'm experiencing something like this and I'm looking for an advice on how to handle it. Wether for me to let go or dispute the project.
Thanks

prestonhunter · ‎05-19-2021

re: "He now said, he will release the whole $1000 when the project is done which I have no problem with but I as I woke this morning I then saw an email that he has cancelled the contract."

"Here is my big mega-project that will take 3 months of work. I'll pay you when it is all done."

Never agree to something like that.

No. That's not going to work out well for you. See what happened? You might not get paid ANYTHING.

I don't care if your project budget is $1000 or $10,000 or $100,000.

You can hire me using an hourly contract.

Or you can pay me $50 for THIS FIRST TASK.

If you don't like my work, you can stop working with me.

If you like my work, we can move onto the next task after this initial one. Maybe that will be $100.

And maybe the task after that will be $200.

re: "So this is the first time I'm experiencing something like this and I'm looking for an advice on how to handle it. Wether for me to let go or dispute the project."

Because it is a substantial amount of money, I think you should immediately dispute.

My advice about just letting go is part of a strategy that involves starting with only a very small task. Only about an hour of work. But you didn't do that. You did a lot more work than that.

So I think you should get paid immediately, and if not, you should dispute. The dispute process means that the client CAN NOT GET the escrow money back immediately. During the dispute process, you can offer a compromise. Maybe ask for 50%. If the client doesn't agree to that, you can ask for 60%. Let the client see that if he wants to get any money back, he needs to agree to release SOME of it to you.

prestonhunter · ‎05-19-2021

re: " I did a whole lot of work. He wanted me to build a multi-vendor ecommerce system from scratch. We agreed that he will released the first milestone the moment I'm done with the whole of the frontend work."

Yes.

That's the problem.

You did a whole lot of work.

And you didn't get paid.

Here is what I did:

I did a SMALL AMOUNT of work.

And then I got paid.

Then I did some more work.

And I got paid.

I did a little work each day, and I got paid each day.

This is what you should keep in mind for FUTURE CONTRACTS.

I get it that you are ALREADY in a difficult situation.

I'm sorry that you encountered a client like this. There are great clients out there. And there are clients like this who DON'T USE FIXED-PRICE CONTRACTS PROPERLY. I have no way of predicting the future in order to know which type of client any client will be. So I am CAUTIOUS with all of them, especially at first. And if they're not a good fixed-price client, I can just stop working and leave.

==================

To answer your CURRENT QUESTIONS:

re: "if I agreed to end the Project without getting paid, will he be able to give a review or not and also if I dispute the milestone will his review appear on my profile because he hasn't paid me for all the works that have done."

If you end the project without getting paid anything, then there is no way for this project to appear in your job history. There will be no public feedback, no job listing, nothing. The client could still leave private feedback.

If you close the contract yourself and release all escrow money back to the client, there will be nothing to dispute.

So your question about a dispute ONLY makes sense if you are trying to get the money.

If you dispute, then YES, the client can leave feedback and that feedback can appear on your public job history.

prestonhunter · ‎05-19-2021