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lindafoo
Community Member

Client job descriptions

Can the powers that be please look into the option of forcing clients to provide more info in their job descriptions? Now that connects are just draining away we really don’t have the luxury of wasting connects. Can they, at the minimum, provide word or page counts and subject areas?? Most of us have preferred genres we work within and I’m now finding myself holding back on applying for anything unless it specifies that it’s within my area. Which means I’m probably missing out on quite a few opportunities. Also, are clients aware of the restrictions we now work under?
22 REPLIES 22
luce-neidert
Community Member


LIN F wrote:
Can the powers that be please look into the option of forcing clients to provide more info in their job descriptions? Now that connects are just draining away we really don’t have the luxury of wasting connects. Can they, at the minimum, provide word or page counts and subject areas?? Most of us have preferred genres we work within and I’m now finding myself holding back on applying for anything unless it specifies that it’s within my area. Which means I’m probably missing out on quite a few opportunities. Also, are clients aware of the restrictions we now work under?

The powers that be will have a lot to do. I guess clients that don't know how to provide sufficient information will have to deal with the rare weirdos that are willing to spend time and connets to answer them.

 

Let's see if this forces clients to learn new tricks when it comes to describing what they need.

florydev
Community Member

This idea of Upwork forcing clients to do anything is a real problem for me.  I actually think they force the clients too much and if you have ever tried to fill a job on UW you might find that it is a bit too much hoop to go through as I do.  My concern is in trying to make job descriptions you like you will annoy a potential customer and they will go somewhere else.  Anything UW does to eliminate bad customers has that potential.

 

The reality is, clients often don't know what they are doing and even less what they really want.  In my line of work this is just a reality.   It is hard to tell if there is real value there but sometimes I get enough to decide to take a shot.  But otherwise I mark it as vague description and move on (which I dont' think does anything).

 

The real problem is that TOO many people actually do apply for these jobs.  This is a problem that I am still hopeful paid connects will solve.

robin_hyman
Community Member

Simple solution:  Don't use your paid connects and valuable time to apply to any position without sufficient information.  I skip those and hope others will too.  Then maybe clients will get the hint....

 

Besides, I feel if they aren't upfront about what they need, they probably don't know what they need and they'll be awful to work with down the line (revisions, not satisfied, etc.)

 

Just my 2 cents

I literally saw one the other day that was one sentence: (paraphrased)

"We need someone who understands english copywriting and content words."

Of course, it was an expert hourly job, so it required 6 connects.

I laughed out loud.

Absolutely! People can no longer write a proper "listing" of any kind, anywhere - not just on UW.  We don't necessarily want clients to be experts but when it becomes much, much more riduculous than someone entering a restaurant and simply stating: 'I'm hungry!', it really shows that we reached rock bottom and even went farther down.

 

Things like "I need translation" or "I need a logo" and NOTHING ELSE reveal that these people simply have no idea NOT about the job to be done but about the world in general. Back in the day, not even a 6 y.o. would have written such crap.

 

So yeah... don't bother and move on. Let other waste their time and money.

tlbp
Community Member

Why would you waste connects applying for a gig with an inadequate job description? 

lindafoo
Community Member

My point is that in Editing you'll often see "completed manuscript needs editing blah blah". Please just give us an idea of page extent - are we looking at 10 or 100? Is it IT-related (in which case I'll run a mile), childcare, or science fiction?? Why can't clients have a range of general subject areas to choose from? Why do i have to apply and waste connects to ask? And from past experience, these are clients who know what they want and aren't bad clients at all. All I'm asking for is more clarity so that we can make educated choices instead of applying blindly or having to wait on the very few that tick our boxes.
tlsanders
Community Member


LIN F wrote:
Can the powers that be please look into the option of forcing clients to provide more info in their job descriptions? Now that connects are just draining away we really don’t have the luxury of wasting connects. Can they, at the minimum, provide word or page counts and subject areas?? Most of us have preferred genres we work within and I’m now finding myself holding back on applying for anything unless it specifies that it’s within my area. Which means I’m probably missing out on quite a few opportunities. Also, are clients aware of the restrictions we now work under?

Do you realize how many different fields there are on Upwork, each with their own very different sets of questions, and each of which would require expertise in the field to determine the right questions? I don't really want Upwork to devote a huge amount of time and resources to that project, especially since it doesn't really work--LinkedIn forces fields like the ones you're describing, and the end result is a bunch of posts that are misleading because the client doesn't really know the answers they're being forced to provide.

 

What I would like to see is an option to flag a job posting as having insufficient information, and then after receiving a few of those Upwork would message the client letting them know they'd get better results if they updated the post with additional information.

 

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a few checkboxes-fiction/non-fiction, etc. But yes, I get your point about it being cumbersome. I think your idea is great-hopefully someone will take notice. I don’t know what the client interface looks like, but it may be useful to them too if it was pointed out that they’ll get much better results if they specified certain criteria in their postings.


LIN F wrote:
I don’t know what the client interface looks like, 

It looks like something one has to be really motivated to fill.

 

It's long enough and there is nothing that anybody can do that would force someone to better describe what they want. There is a text field in which they can write whatever they want. If they cannot be bothered to describe what they want in more than a couple of short sentences, it's actually a good indication that they are not that much motivated or that they will be PITA to work with.

 

Anyways, the whole subject is totally irrelevant. Why would you spend one second minding job posts with poor descriptions? Why would you want Upwork waste their time trying to find an improbable solution to something that is not even a problem?

 

These job postings are simply not there. It's background noise. Focus on jobs that are appealing to you, not on jobs that you're not interested in.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


Rene K wrote:

LIN F wrote:
I don’t know what the client interface looks like, 

It looks like something one has to be really motivated to fill.

 

It's long enough and there is nothing that anybody can do that would force someone to better describe what they want. There is a text field in which they can write whatever they want. If they cannot be bothered to describe what they want in more than a couple of short sentences, it's actually a good indication that they are not that much motivated or that they will be PITA to work with.

 

Anyways, the whole subject is totally irrelevant. Why would you spend one second minding job posts with poor descriptions? Why would you want Upwork waste their time trying to find an improbable solution to something that is not even a problem?

 

These job postings are simply not there. It's background noise. Focus on jobs that are appealing to you, not on jobs that you're not interested in.

 

____________________

 

I agree, but there is an argument against this. Some clients are understandably, cagey and they don't want to reveal too much too soon. However, there is room for job-offer improvement without giving too much away. What harm is there in initially giving the wordcount and subject matter - at least - for a translation or editing/proofreading job? If clients are not encouraged to write better job posts, they will end up with freelancers who may not necessarily deliver what they are expecting. 

 

I' m not including those clients who "are looking for the lowest bids".  


 

"reveal too much, too soon"?? It's a job offer, not a date or a spy game. What is wrong with the world?

Just like we need to be precise and provide necessary info to be selected, THEY need to provide ALL the necessary info for us to make a more relevant and suitable estimate. It's not that hard.

 

I see this all the time, and even when people sell used stuff on websites where they don't have to pay anything: "I'll send pictures of the product only to those who are really interested." Well, pal.... are YOU really interested to sell in the first place? Evidently not. Since you cannot bother to take 2 minutes to upload FOR FREE a couple of freaking pictures.

 

The market already sucks, let's not justify and encourage the unjustifiable but rather call out what needs to be called out.

 

Try and treat any professional like that and see where it goes and how much it costs you 😉

Client: I need a house!

Architect: OK. What house do you have in mind? I'm afraid you will have to be a bit more precise if you want me to help you.

Client: You need to pay $0.15 to know more.

Architect: Here's my $200 bill. Cash only. Now go and learn how to live, pal 😉


What I would like to see is an option to flag a job posting as having insufficient information, and then after receiving a few of those Upwork would message the client letting them know they'd get better results if they updated the post with additional information.

 

 



I like that one Tiffany!


Tiffany S wrote:


Do you realize how many different fields there are on Upwork, each with their own very different sets of questions, and each of which would require expertise in the field to determine the right questions? I don't really want Upwork to devote a huge amount of time and resources to that project, especially since it doesn't really work--LinkedIn forces fields like the ones you're describing, and the end result is a bunch of posts that are misleading because the client doesn't really know the answers they're being forced to provide.

 

What I would like to see is an option to flag a job posting as having insufficient information, and then after receiving a few of those Upwork would message the client letting them know they'd get better results if they updated the post with additional information.

 

 


But this would require thinking outside of my own little safespace. WAT DO THIS IS IMPOSSIBRE???????

I’d like to be able to flag job postings that are blatantly unethical. Case in point, a grant writer posting I saw this morning said the grant writer would get a percentage of the grant if awarded. This is a violation of the Grant Professional Association’s Code of Ethics. It’s also not an allowable expense for most funders. Last but not least, the freelancer doesn’t get paid if the proposal isn’t funded.

Hi Michele,

 

You can always report any job post by following the steps outlined in this help article. Feel free to also send me a private message with more information so that I can report the job posts.

 

Thank you.

~ Aleksandar
Upwork


Michele R wrote:
I’d like to be able to flag job postings that are blatantly unethical. Case in point, a grant writer posting I saw this morning said the grant writer would get a percentage of the grant if awarded. This is a violation of the Grant Professional Association’s Code of Ethics. It’s also not an allowable expense for most funders. Last but not least, the freelancer doesn’t get paid if the proposal isn’t funded.

Michele, I've been reporting those and flagging as unethical for years. I explain the problems you just listed in the report, and nothing ever seems to happen. Upwork doesn't care. 

researchediting
Community Member


LIN F wrote:
....Most of us have preferred genres we work within and I’m now finding myself holding back on applying for anything unless it specifies that it’s within my area....Also, are clients aware of the restrictions we now work under?

"Holding back on applying" is exactly what the powers that be are expecting and hoping will happen. There is no reason to expect or wish the clients to know anything about us but what we do, how well we do it, and what we charge for doing it.

Part of our expertise—which may involve much more than 90 cents' worth of our time—is helping prospective clients, beginning with our proposals, understand what they want done. Some prospects are worth this investment on our part, others are not. If our businesses are to succeed, we need to be able to distinguish the buyers from the tirekickers.

That’s all very well and not really the issue I have. Yes, one can spot timewasters a mile away. My issue is being MORE SPECIFIC in the posting. That is, what GENRE and WORD COUNT of manuscript/article/website to be revised. If Upwork is able to show them an example of a decent job description as opposed to a crappy one they’ll also have the benefit of not having to wade through applications which are completely unsuitable. And I don’t have to waste my time and 6 connects at a shot to ASK. There are loads of them and as so many jobs are ‘unavailable to users in my location’ this is actually an issue I am feeling really irate about. It’s not as simple as ignoring the ‘background noise’ and moving on to one that is ‘worthwhile’. Because not many of them are at the outset.


LIN F wrote:
That’s all very well and not really the issue I have. Yes, one can spot timewasters a mile away. My issue is being MORE SPECIFIC in the posting. That is, what GENRE and WORD COUNT of manuscript/article/website to be revised. If Upwork is able to show them an example of a decent job description as opposed to a crappy one they’ll also have the benefit of not having to wade through applications which are completely unsuitable. And I don’t have to waste my time and 6 connects at a shot to ASK. There are loads of them and as so many jobs are ‘unavailable to users in my location’ this is actually an issue I am feeling really irate about. It’s not as simple as ignoring the ‘background noise’ and moving on to one that is ‘worthwhile’. Because not many of them are at the outset.

I really do understand your pain. As a grant writer, I specialize in a few specific areas where I am very much an expert and there are certain areas I don't want to get involved with. I don't expect UpWork to change anything, but since we're complaining, your request for word count and genre is similar to my request for just tell me what industry. Are you an animal shelter, a jazz ensemble, an afterschool program, a veterans organization, like just give me some idea of, very broadly, what you do, so I even know if I might be the right grant writer for you. I do not work for for-profit companies. So, if you're trying to get a DOT contract, that's not me. So you could at least say that in your job description...Arg......but they won't, and it's fine. I just apply to the clients who are serious enough to know that the only way to find me, the expert, is by giving me enough information to know they are looking. 

 

I did like the analogy of walking into a restaurant and saying "I'm hungry!" Like at least tell me what you're allergic to so I don't kill you while I fill your very vague request. LOL!

On the other hand, I just came across a job posting that was like 3 pages long and after getting through the Great Wall of China of text, I decided that perhaps that client wasn't going to be the best fit for me. 

I received a wall-of-text invite this morning.

 

Very descriptive job post. Very serious job. Exactly the type of work that I do.

 

I declined the offer because the description was too long.

 

I did not provide a reason for declining.