Client refused to pay

seocontent000 · ‎12-24-2017

Hello, I was hired by a client to help create his company privacy policy and we both agreed on the rate. He offered to pay hourly and I also accepted and began to work. after I completed the work and submitted, he came online and said his friend that is to review my work fell sick and the work review will be postponed to the following week. well, I agreed and asked about the health of his friend which he never replied. it's over a month now and I have not heard from him or get paid. what can I possibly do?

petra_r · ‎12-24-2017

Were you actually hired and did you track your time with the Upwork tracker?

If you weren't hired (if you were, there'd be a contract on your "My Jobs" page) the client could not pay you even if they wanted to (without hiring you, anyway)

If you were hired on an hourly contract, did you not track your time with the Upwork time tracker? If you were hired and had tracked your time, you'd have been paid automatically by now...

it's really very simple........

bobafett999 · ‎12-25-2017

@Petra: Perhaps you can shed some light because you have been around a while. It seems to me that many clients take advantage of 'green' freelancers. I see at least one post a day in which some new freelancer is complaining about payment. As Felipe wrote on other thread, freelancer has a choice of no payment/reduced payment or bad feedback.

Perhaps there should be a mechanism by which those bad feedback do not show. The dispute process can not award money (unless you spend $300), but they should be able make a reasonable determination about who is trying to cheat whom to a reasonable extent. Cheating clients have no downside - they have mastered the game.

On the other hand for many freelancers this supplemental income makes a big difference in their lives.

petra_r · ‎12-25-2017

@Prashant P wrote:
1) It seems to me that many clients take advantage of 'green' freelancers. I see at least one post a day in which some new freelancer is complaining about payment.
2) As Felipe wrote on other thread, freelancer has a choice of no payment/reduced payment or bad feedback.

3) Perhaps there should be a mechanism by which those bad feedback do not show.

1) Yes. 9 times out of 10 this happens because freelancers don't use the site correctly or don't use the protections that are in place.

2) I disagree with that. I've never made that choice in all the years I've been here and over 180 contracts. Sure, I've fired clients as well, the trick is to choose them carefully in the first place, and then keep control over the contract. Freelancers are supposedly businesses. Project / contract and client management skills are vital for any business.

3) Well, no. Part of the point is to weed out poor freelancers as early as possible to make sure they get to do as little damage as possible (damage = putting off paying clients, as clients who have a poor experience are far less likely to hire again, which hurts Upwork and hurts freelancers.)

bobafett999 · ‎12-25-2017

@Petra R wrote:
3) Well, no. Part of the point is to weed out poor freelancers as early as possible to make sure they get to do as little damage as possible (damage = putting off paying clients, as clients who have a poor experience are far less likely to hire again, which hurts Upwork and hurts freelancers.)

(1), (2) Well Petra you are a high end provider. Thus your clients are high end people looking for a quality product.

(3) Well yes in a way I agree with you, but what about those 'preying' clients? They have perfected the art of screwing 'green' freelancers. They know that they have zero downside. They know they control the game because they have the 'feedback' stick. Also, it seems that cheating is more rampant in very low end of the market.

Take example of the other thread in which the client is asking the freelancer to reduce their tracked time from 13 hours to 5 hours. What do you honestly believe would be the outcome?

tlsanders · ‎12-26-2017

@Prashant P wrote:

(3) Well yes in a way I agree with you, but what about those 'preying' clients? They have perfected the art of screwing 'green' freelancers. They know that they have zero downside. They know they control the game because they have the 'feedback' stick. Also, it seems that cheating is more rampant in very low end of the market.

It is more rampant at the lower end of the market, but that is at least in part due to freelancer perceptions and actions. I'm not blaming the victim--clients who scam freelancers are responsible for their own behavior, and should be banned from the platform. That said, though, there are patterns common to a sector of lower-end providers that makes them more vulnerable to abuse. This includes:

-jumping in without taking the time to understand how Upwork works, and so making it easy for a dishonest client by skipping contract creation, escrow, etc.
-being so eager to take on work that they ignore red flags in hopes that a bad situation will magically work out (understandable if a person is pressed for money, but almost always backfires)
-feeling that the client has all the power. A successful freelancing relationship MUST be one of equal professionals...one business needs a service and another has the skills/experience to provide it. When freelancers think of themselves as employees or see themselves as held hostage to feedback, the nature of independent contracting is destroyed, and the perception that the client has all the power becomes reality.

I do realize that many of us who make these points are in a position to assert ourselves with less risk than newer and lower-end providers. But, that doesn't change the truth of how important it is. Someone who doesn't have the courage and the ability to take a risk and treat himself or herself as a professional with valuable skills isn't well suited to freelancing. That's not a value judgment. There are a million professions I'm not well suited to, because I'm not physically strong or I lack the patience for detail work or I opt not to bite my tongue when some roles may call for that (and so on, and so on). One thing that is required to be a successful freelancer is the ability to view oneself as a business providing a valuable service and not a potential victim at the mercy of clients.

petra_r · ‎12-26-2017

@Prashant P wrote:
Take example of the other thread in which the client is asking the freelancer to reduce their tracked time from 13 hours to 5 hours. What do you honestly believe would be the outcome?

I would discuss it with my client. The client has history, and we don't know the whole story here. The client might have an unexpected emergency which put her card over the limit, there could have been a misunderstanding as to hw many hours should have been worked the first week.... any number of things. This need not have a bad outcome. If that was my client I'd listen to what their situation is and then find a solution together with the client. This does not mean either giving up the money OR poor feedback, it means communicating effectively to find a way forward that works for both parties.

You seem to believe that many clients are fundamentally mean or cheap or nasty. I believe in solution finding WITH the client. You know?

A great deal of the issues people have with their clients are not rooted in the fact that the clients are inherently evil, they are rooted in lack of effective, confident and solution-orientated communication.

g_vasilevski · ‎12-25-2017

Hi Nora,

On hourly jobs your clients will be billed each Monday and have the chance to review the work diary till Friday, clients are billed automatically.
You have a contract for this project and you can see your funds are in the Review stage, please go to Reports > Overview.
To learn more about getting payed on hourly contracts visit Weekly Billing Cycle.
I can also advise you to learn the requirements to be eligible for Hourly Protection for Freelancers, this way you will be protected by Upwork in a case of a misunderstanding or a conflict with your client.

~ Goran

petra_r · ‎12-25-2017

@Goran V wrote:

You have a contract for this project and you can see your funds are in the Review stage, please go to Reports > Overview.

Are you sure? She says this happened weeks ago, so unless she added manual time since posting the original post, the review period would be long over...

g_vasilevski · ‎12-25-2017

Hi Petra,

I found only one hourly contract that is connected to privacy policy work as Nora described here and the time was tracked last week using the app.

Nora can you check by going to Reports > Overview > Review stage, the contract title will be list there along with the time tracked. Can you confirm that it is the same contact?

~ Goran

petra_r · ‎12-25-2017

@Goran V wrote:
Hi Petra,

I found only one hourly contract that is connected to privacy policy work as Nora described here and the time was tracked last week using the app.

It can't be the same contract. (unless she tracked it over a month after the work was done)

@Nora P wrote:
..... after I completed the work and submitted, he came online and said his friend that is to review my work fell sick and the work review will be postponed to the following week. .... it's over a month now and I have not heard from him or get paid. what can I possibly do?

g_vasilevski · ‎12-25-2017

Hi Petra,

The communication was done 3 weeks ago as Nora described. The only time that was tracked under the contract is from last week and the funds are under Review.

~ Goran

seocontent000 · ‎12-25-2017

Yes, I have submitted the work long before I realize I needed a desktop app to track the time. So I tracked it last week since the client isn't responsive again and this is my first job for hourly paid so I knew nothing of tracking time. I can now see that funds are in the review stage I just hope I get paid for my efforts.

tlsanders · ‎12-25-2017

Nora,that's not going to work. The client can easily dispute the hours and win, since you didn't in fact do the work when you were running the time tracker. Your screen shots presumably won't show you doing work that was already done some time earlier. You may even get into hot water with Upwork, since although you were only intending to get paid for work you actually did, you used the time tracker fraudulently.

On a side note, a website privacy policy is a legal document. While a company is free to create their own privacy policy internally at their own risk, a non-attorney freelancer can't provide legal drafting services directly to a client.

ruth_bowles · ‎12-27-2017

Jeez, this whole thing is just..... a hot mess.