Do you write/edit within or outside Upwork?

[snusbaum]

Hello, writers and editors! I'm just getting started here and want to make sure I have a feel for the process before bidding on jobs. I've watched several of the tutorials, have set up my profile and am comfortable with the concept of a cover letter and bid. I also, for the most part, understand how the time is tracked.

However, once you are selected, do you complete the work within the program entirely, or do you work in other programs (Word, Acrobat, Google Docs, etc.)? I'd hate to earn a job only to say "Well, I don't really know exactly how this works..."

Thanks so much!

Steph

[tlbp]

You will work using whatever app is suitable- MSWord, GoogleDocs, etc. The client may have a preference for delivery. For hourly jobs, record your time and include memos describing the work in the space provided in the timer app.  You submit the work via message or other method per client's request. 

For fixed price, jobs only complete funded in escrow tasks .(Yes, I know there are some with long relationships with clients who do otherwise, but that's not really good advice for a newbie.) Once completed, submit the work via the "Submit Work" button and wait. If the client doesn't comment, escrowed funds are released after 14-days. Do not resubmit work during that waiting period unless you have made changes- the time resets with each resubmission. If you are working for trustworthy clients, you may want to send a draft via message before submitting for payment. This gives them a chance to offer feedback informally.  (Don't give finished work to anyone outside the formal process if you don't fully trust in their commitment to pay. )

You may find more tips in the New to Upwork section on how to navigate discussions with your clients. Either you establish how things proceed or they do. (Some clients want to work cooperatively in a doc, others want a finished and ready to publish piece, others want to see a draft...)

[snusbaum]

Thanks, Tonya!

[resultsassoc]

Tonya's answer is spot on.

Why would you track time for editing or writing? There is no rational reason that writing, editing, translating, or any other creative endeavor, should be an hourly contract. That pays for input, not output. Fixed price is more lucrative than hourly, appears more professional since you're not punching a time clock, transfers risk of cost overrun from the client to the provider, and is safer for the client.

As a client, I never ask a freelancer to punch a time clock. UW's time-tracker is so easy to bypass, if you're not smart enough to figure it out, you're not smart enough to work for me. As a professional strategy consultant, a request to "prove" I'm working is a serious insult.

I write and edit on UW, another board, and privately. Most of my private writing is my own business books or fiction. I provide everything in Word, .pdf, .ppt, or .xlsx.

[reinierb]

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@Bill H wrote:

Tonya's answer is spot on.

Why would you track time for editing or writing? There is no rational reason that writing, editing, translating, or any other creative endeavor, should be an hourly contract. That pays for input, not output. Fixed price is more lucrative than hourly, appears more professional since you're not punching a time clock, transfers risk of cost overrun from the client to the provider, and is safer for the client.

As a client, I never ask a freelancer to punch a time clock. UW's time-tracker is so easy to bypass, if you're not smart enough to figure it out, you're not smart enough to work for me. As a professional strategy consultant, a request to "prove" I'm working is a serious insult.

I write and edit on UW, another board, and privately. Most of my private writing is my own business books or fiction. I provide everything in Word, .pdf, .ppt, or .xlsx.

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 As far as I can tell, the only way to "bypass" the time tracker is to use illegal/unethical means. I suppose then that people who can't do this without getting caught out by Upwork are all too dumb to work for you. Good for you. 

[petra_r]

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Bill H wrote:  There is no rational reason that writing, editing, translating, or any other creative endeavor, should be an hourly contract.

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 Honest to god, that sort of ignorant, sweeping generalisation first thing in the morning makes me wish I had not turned on the computer before my second cup of coffee.

Just because you fail to understand the perfectly rational reasons why some clients and some freelancers prefer hourly contracts for some such projects does not mean there aren't any. It just means you don't know them.

[lizablau]

Exactly, Petra. I've found that hourly contracts are much more lucrative, especially for ongoing writing projects that often last several months. 

[snusbaum]

Thanks, Petra. I can see the merits in charging by project or by hour, but I noticed Upwork asks for your hourly rate as a condition of hiring, so I assumed it was an important factor for the company. 

Steph

[datasciencewonk]

I'm good with hourly for both writing and editing. 

Some people aren't very good at feature selection when they're making an assessment (or they're only selecting features directly relevant to them). 

In fact, based on what Petra brought up in another thread (about Fixed Rate arbitration), I'd be extremely cautious about Fixed Rate Contracts.

But, hey, if it works for other FL'ers, then *WHO AM I* to say they shouldn't be doing it?

[versailles]

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@Bill H wrote:

Tonya's answer is spot on.

Why would you track time for editing or writing? There is no rational reason that writing, editing, translating, or any other creative endeavor, should be an hourly contract.

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Good grief Bill.

While I agree that translation works beautifully with fixed price contracts, editing definitely doesn't. Assessing the quality of a document takes a lot of time, and if the document is long, it's just not worth the risk. Editing is usually paid by the hour.

[colettelewis]

I only edit by the hour off-platform. I wouldn't dream of using the tracker when I take editing jobs on Upwork - I don't use the tracker at all (it freezes my brain). My per-word rate usually corresponds to my hourly rate, and my rates vary. Proofreading (proper proofreading in the traditional publishing sense) is a bit cheaper than copy-editing. I charge significantly more per word for substantive editing.

[kfarnell]

Quite. Plus although it might take the same amount of time to highlight an anachronism as a grammatical error (for example),  I charge more for being clever. I find editing intense enough as it is without worrying about something else happening on the screen.

[sgoble]

Why would you track time for editing or writing? There is no rational reason that writing, editing, translating, or any other creative endeavor, should be an hourly contract.

Given the horrible job descriptions on this platform, I would be reluctant to do anything fixed-price other than make a $50 proposal to spend an hour discussing what the scope of the project really is so I can make a decent bid on editing or writing.

If I have to spend 5 hours digging through a mess of engineering documents and emails before I can write a 6-page user guide that only takes me 3 hours to write ... I expect to get paid for that 5 hours.

I have no problem editing or writing with the time tracker on, in a display that shows the active software and the tracker. I do my goofing off by turning the tracker off and then taking the break. 

[colettelewis]

I think it is each to their own. I don't use the tracker because I don't like having "one eye on the pot and the other on the ceiling",  and so far, I haven't had a problem.

It varies with my off-platform clients. Some prefer hourly, and others per word or per project.

[snusbaum]

Thanks, everyone! I've been living under a stopwatch for so long working in newspaper that I guess the idea of being monitored never fazed me. 🙂

[ruth_bowles]

When I get in with a client, I usually just use whatever they want for payment (fixed-price or hourly). I have one fixed-price contract that is usually 1-2 articles per month. I get a different milestone for each article. I have another contract that is hourly with a different client who wants various writing tasks. I pulled together a Powerpoint last week, and this week I edited an email sequence and a created a blog post based on a video presentation. I can appreciate that my client doesn't want to go into Upwork all of the time to create these as milestones. 

Either way, I just quote them a rate that makes it worth my time. 

[locarius]

To be honest i use Word, Excel (for spreadsheets) and google docs.

I have little use so far of Upwork Program, and i do want to use it, but i have not found the opportunity yet, im more confident on the fixed price thought, i dont feel like per hour is actually a safe thing to do, i mean for me a fixed price project that has attached the file onto the job description, i can know if its worth the money it offers or not.

With per hour and no attached, i mean you can clearly get paid the ammount you work, but you dont know if its going to be substantial.