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jr-translation
Community Member

How to deal with bad freelancers?

So here's the story:

I stumbled over a freelance translator that is top rated and has a history of fiction translation. Said translator has a returning client that keeps giving 5* ratings but when you check the feedback given by readers on amazon the quality of the work becomes obvious. People complain about the lack of grammar, poor spelling, and obvious mistranslations. One example I found myself was a section with kids sitting on a porch eating ice cream. In the translation they were sitting in a Porsche.

 

I could make it easy for me saying that clients gets what they pay for and if one keeps hiring the same translator again and again, it's his own fault. My problem starts when other clients rely on that outstanding feedback and hire that translator just to find out weeks later and after several $k spend that the translator is nowhere near as good as the job history implies.

 

There is no way for us to reach out and warn clients and if one would realize what is going on the freelancer could a) use the perk to remove the feedback, b) return the money and have the public feedback removed etc. So basically if it goes down with one client, the translator can get out with a few scratches and just move on to the next client and probably distroy an international career of a talented author.

Any thoughts?

ACCEPTED SOLUTION


@Preston H wrote:

I think some people underestimate the market demand for lower-quality work.

 

Much of the writing you see on websites may strike you as poorly written. But the quality of that writing may indeed meet or exceed the needs of the project owner.

 

Many clients know full well that they are obtaining lower-quality work for lower prices, but they are doing so because the quality is sufficient for their purposes. This could be for wrting as well as for many other things - art, design, customer service, etc.

 

For example, one could easily imagine a company that pays lower rates for customer service representatives, knowing that "higher quality" service could be obtained by paying considerably higher rates. But they find that the quality of the live customer service they provide is sufficient, especially when viewed within the context of a broader support system that includes static web pages, interactive forums, email-based support, and other resources.


We all know that some clients don't care too much about the quality. My issue was that client A hires freelancer XY on a regualer basis. Freelancer XY delivers poor quality but receives 5* feedbacks. Now client B is looking for a freelancer and freelancer XY has a history with 5* for the task in question. Client B hires freelancer XY because it is a special and rare niche and what can be more convincing than several years with 5* feedback. This freelancer has to be awesome. After the job is done and paid client B realises that the work provided is useless. So who is to blame for the misleading information in the profile? Client A for giving wrong and misleading feedback? It looks like it is one of these "work cheep and get a great feedback" clients.Why should he care?

View solution in original post

20 REPLIES 20
silw
Community Member

well, there is pretty much nothing that can be done. if the client is happy with the results he obviously doesn't understand himself, then he is happy.  if i hire a chinese translator i won't have any clue if the results are good or not.

versailles
Community Member


@Aron H wrote:

 if i hire a chinese translator i won't have any clue if the results are good or not.


This is why you hire a couple of Chinese editors to assess the quality of the text that your translator produced.

 

I guess that the translator mentioned by the OP is one of these cheap self-proclaimed translators who work for cheap clients. These clients won't spend a dollar to hire an editor.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

You're talking about finding a "bad freelancer" that you simply stumbled onto on the Upwork website?

 

This isn't somebody you hired, or somebody who is a co-worker on a project you're hired to work on.

 

Yeah... Absolutely nothing you can do.

 

Nor should you try.

 

If a freelancer or client is violating Upwork ToS, then Upwork provides methods for flagging them.


But simply being "bad at their job?" That could apply to most every freelancer on Upwork.

 

Frankly, I kind of think every freelancer on Upwork who works in my niche but isn't at my level is "bad at their job."


Except for the ones who are better at it than me. And they probably think I'm bad at my job.

 

If I look at the work done on Upwork a couple years ago BY ME PERSONALLY, I could say that the freelancer who did that work was kind of bad at their job.

Unless Upwork transforms itself into a very different sort of operation, the only check on freelancer quality is going to be (a) clients doing their own due diligence and (b) feedback from previous clients. 

 

Two ways that Upwork could improve the feedback system to prevent this sort of abuse:

1. Indicate which feedbacks are from the same clients, so readers can see if the feedbacks are all or mostly from one client. To avoid identifying the clients they could be numbered. So the first client to hire that freelancer would be referred to as #1. Alternatively (or additionally) give the total number of clients who have left feedback.

2. Get rid of the TR perk and the ability to hide public feedback by refunding.

re: "Get rid of the TR perk and the ability to hide public feedback by refunding."

 

I have never considered using the Top Rated perk that allows for hiding or getting rid of bad feedback. It does seem like something of a mulligan. I DO like the idea of having perks for Top Rated freelancers, but I can see how this particular perk might seem like it hides pertinent information from clients.

 

Having said that... are once-in-a-time-period feedback cover-ups by Top Rated freelancers really the issue here? If freelancers are genuinely bad at what they do and are NOT providing positive customer outcomes for the post part, I would assume they don't reach or maintain Top Rated status. (The original poster is referring to a freelancer who presumably is NOT Top Rated.)

 

As for getting rid of the ability to hide public feedback by refunding...

 

I don't know...

This doesn't change private feedback.

 

And I think clients DO like the idea of getting money back when things go wrong on a project.

 

If Upwork does NOT remove public feedback (or prevent it from ever appearing) for contracts when a freelancer refunds all the money... Haven't you removed most of the substantive motivation for providing a refund?

 

What are you left with at that point, other than a freelancer's good will?

Misunderstood / misread


@Richard W wrote:

Unless Upwork transforms itself into a very different sort of operation, the only check on freelancer quality is going to be (a) clients doing their own due diligence and (b) feedback from previous clients. 

 

Two ways that Upwork could improve the feedback system to prevent this sort of abuse:

1. Indicate which feedbacks are from the same clients, so readers can see if the feedbacks are all or mostly from one client. To avoid identifying the clients they could be numbered. So the first client to hire that freelancer would be referred to as #1. Alternatively (or additionally) give the total number of clients who have left feedback.

2. Get rid of the TR perk and the ability to hide public feedback by refunding.


 ____________________________________________________

 

I don't see how any of the changes you suggest would improve quality. It would not stop any inferior translator thinking that they were great, or any client thinking they had found quality in the bargain basement. Cheap is cheap. 

 

I would like to know the standard of writing in the original texts. From the OP's post, it would seem that the repeat client does not really know the difference between good or bad. What is interesting is that the client continues to hire this freelancer, despite the lousy Amazon reviews. 


@Preston H wrote:

 

 

If I look at the work done on Upwork a couple years ago BY ME PERSONALLY, I could say that the freelancer who did that work was kind of bad at their job.


Still, IT and language are two different beasts. SQL, either it works or it doesn't. If there is a bug, it will mess up things sooner or later. But poorly written code may hold. It won't be efficient, it will be slow, maintenance will be a nightmare, but it'll work. More or less. They may not even notice.

 

- This database that young Preston built is very slow.

- Hey, it has over 100 records to manage, try to sort 100 records by hand! You think it's easy?

- Nah, you're right boss. It's still good to have it. It saves time. Oh look, it's almost done!

 

With language, you don't get away so easily. If it's poorly written, or translated, it shows and it shows immediately.

 

- What? Who translated this?

- Young René.

- Frak him. It doesn't even make any sense. Fire this idiot.

- Sure boss.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


@Rene K wrote:

@Preston H wrote:

 

 

If I look at the work done on Upwork a couple years ago BY ME PERSONALLY, I could say that the freelancer who did that work was kind of bad at their job.


Still, IT and language are two different beasts. SQL, either it works or it doesn't. If there is a bug, it will mess up things sooner or later. But poorly written code may hold. It won't be efficient, it will be slow, maintenance will be a nightmare, but it'll work. More or less. They may not even notice.

 

- This database that young Preston built is very slow.

- Hey, it has over 100 records to manage, try to sort 100 records by hand! You think it's easy?

- Nah, you're right boss. It's still good to have it. It saves time. Oh look, it's almost done!

 

With language, you don't get away so easily. If it's poorly written, or translated, it shows and it shows immediately.

 

- What? Who translated this?

- Young René.

- Frak him. It doesn't even make any sense. Fire this idiot.

- Sure boss.


 So say we all.

petra_r
Community Member


@Jennifer R wrote:

So here's the story:

I stumbled over a freelance translator that is top rated and has a history of fiction translation. Said translator has a returning client that keeps giving 5* ratings but when you check the feedback given by readers on amazon the quality of the work becomes obvious. People complain about the lack of grammar, poor spelling, and obvious mistranslations. One example I found myself was a section with kids sitting on a porch eating ice cream. In the translation they were sitting in a Porsche.



 Can I just point out that it's not me 😉

 

jr-translation
Community Member

-Rene:

I guess that the translator mentioned by the OP is one of these cheap self-proclaimed translators who work for cheap clients.

Yes, it one of these selfproclaimed translators, but the clients are not alwazs cheap.

If only client A who does not care about the quality would be affected, I couldn't care less. My experience is that client B and C have been lured by the positiv feedback from client A.

The niche is fiction translation and one client, who pays well, hired me for proofreading. That's how I discovered it. There are tons of self-publishing authors looking for translators that might not have the money so they rely on all the 5* feedbacks that they have hired a top translator who is able to offer lover rates because he is living in a low-cost country.

 

-Preston:

Having said that... are once-in-a-time-period feedback cover-ups by Top Rated freelancers really the issue here? If freelancers are genuinely bad at what they do and are NOT providing positive customer outcomes for the post part, I would assume they don't reach or maintain Top Rated status. (The original poster is referring to a freelancer who presumably is NOT Top Rated.)

Unfortunately this translator is Top Rated. Since there are up to 10 jobs out in this niche every month it is possible to move on to the next client.

 

Unless Upwork transforms itself into a very different sort of operation, the only check on freelancer quality is going to be (a) clients doing their own due diligence and (b) feedback from previous clients. 

 

-Richard W:

Two ways that Upwork could improve the feedback system to prevent this sort of abuse:

1. Indicate which feedbacks are from the same clients, so readers can see if the feedbacks are all or mostly from one client. To avoid identifying the clients they could be numbered. So the first client to hire that freelancer would be referred to as #1. Alternatively (or additionally) give the total number of clients who have left feedback.

2. Get rid of the TR perk and the ability to hide public feedback by refunding.

I like the idea, but I am not sure if it would work. Maybe if refunding would also be limited the same way as the TR Perk (At least three months must pass and at least 10 new jobs on Upwork must be completed before you can submit another request). This way TR freelancers still have the perk they worked for. It would still take some time in this particual case to seriously harm this freelancers JJS but might make a difference in the long-run.

 

-Preston:

And I think clients DO like the idea of getting money back when things go wrong on a project.

Sure they do, but they also have two weeks to check the work and approve the payment. They have even more time to leave the feedback. I don't get why some have to hurry to complete a project and then miss the chance to leave a usefull feedback.

 

-Petra:

 Can I just point out that it's not me

Yes

 

Jennifer, tell the client to send the work back to be fixed and to ask for a refund if the freelancer refuses.

That's the only way.

 

When I last had to do that the freelancer was removed from the platform. (The client did not get the several thousand Dollars she had paid her back though...)

 

I spent some time digging afterwards and the freelancer was not who "she" had said she was, not where she said she was, not a she and didn't have a law degree from Harvard either...

 

 

 

Yeah, but how do you reach out to a client? What I could do is use connects and warn potential new clients, but why help cheep clients?

 

I told the one client I am in touch with to cancel any existing contract. Because she blames herself for not knowing how UW works she wants to continue with the current contract but not start a new one. So there will be at least a negativ private feedback in the end.


@Jennifer R wrote:

Yeah, but how do you reach out to a client? What I could do is use connects and warn potential new clients, but why help cheep clients?


 Ah - you can't warn "other" clients than the one you are already proofreading for. They'll need to do their own due diligence.

ETA: I was thinking about a post - but I did not submit a thing - weird or what? 

 


@Nichola L wrote:

ETA: I was thinking about a post - but I did not submit a thing - weird or what? 

 


 

As much as I love a good bar fight, I think that you did the right thing.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


@Rene K wrote:

@Nichola L wrote:

ETA: I was thinking about a post - but I did not submit a thing - weird or what? 

 


 

As much as I love a good bar fight, I think that you did the right thing.


 ___________________

Very funny!! 😄 Seriously - I did not delete and did not submit.  Ah well. 

 

iacob_irina
Community Member

I wish there was something I could do about bad freelancers. 

 

I had a client have me re-write their site, or some pages on their site, and I was crawling up the wall. Granted I'm not a native English speaker, but I like to think that in the past 6 years my English improved. [I barely speak my native tongue as my partner doesn't speak it].

Anyways.. the work I had to rewrite was a nightmare. And because of that, it's the type of job I least want or enjoy. The client was one who gave me a lot of work, and was paying on time, never had any issues with them, so I accepted the tasks. I tried telling them the original stuff was a mess and a crime against English, but he didn't really care. I think the work for someone else who simply wanted some online presence for those who speak English, but didn't care enough to have proper language used - just enough to introduce the site/company/product to the possible international clients or business partners. 

So as long as the client doesn't care, we can't really do much anyways.

I think some people underestimate the market demand for lower-quality work.

 

Much of the writing you see on websites may strike you as poorly written. But the quality of that writing may indeed meet or exceed the needs of the project owner.

 

Many clients know full well that they are obtaining lower-quality work for lower prices, but they are doing so because the quality is sufficient for their purposes. This could be for writing as well as for many other things - art, design, customer service, etc.

 

For example, one could easily imagine a company that pays lower rates for customer service representatives, knowing that "higher quality" service could be obtained by paying considerably higher rates. But they find that the quality of the live customer service they provide is sufficient, especially when viewed within the context of a broader support system that includes static web pages, interactive forums, email-based support, and other resources.


@Preston H wrote:

I think some people underestimate the market demand for lower-quality work.

 

Much of the writing you see on websites may strike you as poorly written. But the quality of that writing may indeed meet or exceed the needs of the project owner.

 

Many clients know full well that they are obtaining lower-quality work for lower prices, but they are doing so because the quality is sufficient for their purposes. This could be for wrting as well as for many other things - art, design, customer service, etc.

 

For example, one could easily imagine a company that pays lower rates for customer service representatives, knowing that "higher quality" service could be obtained by paying considerably higher rates. But they find that the quality of the live customer service they provide is sufficient, especially when viewed within the context of a broader support system that includes static web pages, interactive forums, email-based support, and other resources.


We all know that some clients don't care too much about the quality. My issue was that client A hires freelancer XY on a regualer basis. Freelancer XY delivers poor quality but receives 5* feedbacks. Now client B is looking for a freelancer and freelancer XY has a history with 5* for the task in question. Client B hires freelancer XY because it is a special and rare niche and what can be more convincing than several years with 5* feedback. This freelancer has to be awesome. After the job is done and paid client B realises that the work provided is useless. So who is to blame for the misleading information in the profile? Client A for giving wrong and misleading feedback? It looks like it is one of these "work cheep and get a great feedback" clients.Why should he care?