This is truly sad...

[Luce N]

Well, Brandon, apart from your JSS, your profile looks very good, with excellent feedback. I wouldn't despair, chances are many clients won't even notice your JSS.

I have been having a hard time getting new clients lately, and I guess it's mostly because we are too many on the platform - and many of us are ready to work for nearly nothing to get the jobs. I like getting the Freelancer Plus membership just to get an idea of what others are bidding, and there are always weirdos offering to do a huge amount of work for peanuts. They probably don't get the jobs, but the clients get the idea that we are a crowd of beggars ready to do anything for a few dollars. It's pitiful.

I think we should all fight that, for example when we have extra connects, just use them to send messages to clients proposing unacceptable rates to explain to them why these are unacceptable. Just let them think about our real life, about things like Upwork's cut, what we pay to banks to have dollars changed to euros (I live in France) and the taxes we pay in our countries. 

Many clients seem to think of freelancers as virtual commodities, with no real life. 

[Kim F]

I assume your suggestion was tongue in cheek and hopefully no-one will take it literally. 

Harassing people about their proposed budget when you're not even interested in the project would only add to the perception too many clients have that freelancers here are unprofessional with the people skills of a pot plant. 

[Luce N]

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Kim F wrote:

I assume your suggestion was tongue in cheek and hopefully no-one will take it literally. 

Harassing people about their proposed budget when you're not even interested in the project would only add to the perception too many clients have that freelancers here are unprofessional with the people skills of a pot plant. 

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[Luce N]

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Luce N wrote:

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Kim F wrote:

I assume your suggestion was tongue in cheek and hopefully no-one will take it literally. 

Harassing people about their proposed budget when you're not even interested in the project would only add to the perception too many clients have that freelancers here are unprofessional with the people skills of a pot plant. 

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Kim, this is not a tongue in cheek suggestion. We are dealing with a serious matter. These people are probably breaking the laws of their countries by hiring at rock bottom price, since most civilized countries have minimum wage laws.

I would not harass people, I would just explain things to them. For example, if they have a history of hiring at $5, $10 dollars, I would explain to them that it is not in their interest to continue doing so as only desperate freelancers will answer their offer, and they may not be qualified to do their job, or worse still, they may be planning a scam.

I would then tell them that I might be interested in doing their job and what I would consider to be a fair deal for it.

I'm a kind person, and I believe in sharing advice.

[Kim F]

> These people are probably breaking the laws of their countries by hiring at rock bottom price, since most civilized countries have minimum wage laws.

Minimum wage laws do not apply to freelance workers. And a number of 'civilised' countries do not have a minimum wage, for example, Sweden. No laws are being broken.

> I would not harass people, I would just explain things to them.

Which they may regard as harassment. Distasteful though the low rates are, the client isn't technically doing anything wrong and may well have got what they want for their money before. Chances are that they're also intelligent enough to realise precisely what they're doing. 

> For example, if they have a history of hiring at $5, $10 dollars, I would explain to them that it is not in their interest to continue doing so as only desperate freelancers will answer their offer, and they may not be qualified to do their job, or worse still, they may be planning a scam.

Given that the internet contains loads of advice suggesting that starting out on Upwork entails charging low rates, low bidding freelancers may be guilty of nothing more than following bad advice.  Even if they are desperate, that doesn't necessarily mean they are con artists or unskilled.

The low rates are, of course, unreasonable and can even be seen as abusive. At best, they are often insulting. But the culture here is created by Upwork itself.  Unless and until Upwork raises the minimum rates and encourages spending at a higher level, people will continue to offer derisory rates.

Upwork could choose to promote proven quality freelancers; offer incentives to successful freelancers to stay on-platform/bring in more work; use satisfied clients who pay professional rates for quality work as part of their promotion; market itself as superior to other sites because here you can find true proven professionals unlike on other platforms where it's a race to the bottom and several other things. They could have a premium side (whilst retaining lower rate projects if they wanted) and promote themselves as the only large online platform that does this. They could acknowledge that a lot of money is made from individuals with one-off projects and not everyone here is a corporation or SME and they could cater better to those individuals.

Upwork could do a lot of things that would not only enhance their reputation but would also attract more money, for them and us. Without them doing things like this, we can't do more than what you say below.

> I would then tell them that I might be interested in doing their job and what I would consider to be a fair deal for it.

[Luce N]

Well Kim, thanks for taking the time to give your point of view. I must admit that I agree with many of the things you say, however I don't call working for a pittance freelancing, it's just being taken advantage of. I live in a country were "uberisation" is not encouraged, and I'm glad about that. To me, it is morally wrong to take advantage of others, that's all.

[Wendy C]

Too time consuming, Luce.  And futile. Educate the buyers you want to turn into your clients.  That's all who count.

Without a quasi-professional job cost minimum + improved screening / vetting  of FLers (U is working on this) + purging the site of years long dormant accounts - buyers will never perceive U as a truly professional marketplace.

As always,  I get that U. believes a large number of potential talent on tap for buyers to select from is a plus but U. seems to negate that in total by limiting invites to 3.  

Just my rant for the morning.  

[Luce N]

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Wendy C wrote:

Too time consuming, Luce.  And futile. Educate the buyers you want to turn into your clients.  That's all who count.

Without a quasi-professional job cost minimum + improved screening / vetting  of FLers (U is working on this) + purging the site of years long dormant accounts - buyers will never perceive U as a truly professional marketplace.

As always,  I get that U. believes a large number of potential talent on tap for buyers to select from is a plus but U. seems to negate that in total by limiting invites to 3.  

Just my rant for the morning.  

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Doesn't have to be a time consuming thing, I can have a sort of template to save time. And who knows, once "educated" these people may want to hire me.

How do you know that U is working on screening / vetting FLers? That's great news.

If U. truly believes that a large number of potential talent on tap for buyers to select from is such a good thing, U. should say so to the clients that have been scammed or that have hired someone for cheap and regretted their choice... and see how the clients take it.

[Jennifer R]

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Luce N wrote:

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Wendy C wrote:

Too time consuming, Luce.  And futile. Educate the buyers you want to turn into your clients.  That's all who count.

Without a quasi-professional job cost minimum + improved screening / vetting  of FLers (U is working on this) + purging the site of years long dormant accounts - buyers will never perceive U as a truly professional marketplace.

As always,  I get that U. believes a large number of potential talent on tap for buyers to select from is a plus but U. seems to negate that in total by limiting invites to 3.  

Just my rant for the morning.  

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Doesn't have to be a time consuming thing, I can have a sort of template to save time. And who knows, once "educated" these people may want to hire me.

How do you know that U is working on screening / vetting FLers? That's great news.

If U. truly believes that a large number of potential talent on tap for buyers to select from is such a good thing, U. should say so to the clients that have been scammed or that have hired someone for cheap and regretted their choice... and see how the clients take it.

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I created at one point a template regarding fiction translation and some DOs and DON'Ts for clients looking for translators. Most clients have no idea and believe that the translators have to be good if they are top rated. I stopped counting the jobs I got out of that list. I used the template outside UW as well linking to my UW profile for reference and landed a job at a publisher. They want full-time but I would go crazy doing only fiction.

I would love for UW to have the freelancers checked but I really hope they ignore the test results.

[Luce N]

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Jennifer R wrote:

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I would love for UW to have the freelancers checked but I really hope they ignore the test results.

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Me too, or they should take the time to change the tests very often as you can find the results on YouTube.