Trouble with New Client

[saratopia35]

Hello!

I'm currently working with someone who is new to Upwork. She has given me directions for a ghost writing job, and I completed it to the best of my abilities.

She is brand new to Upwork, and does not have good communication skills. She told me to write it in a certain tone and then after I write 1,000+ words for her, she is severely dissapointed and wanted it in a different tone and wanted it a different length. Even though we initially talked about 1,000-1,500 and that this was a "rough draft".

I am ready and willing to work with her, but she takes 4-5 days to respond, and I get the feeling she won't be happy with whatever I do. Thus far, I've worked about 6 hours on this project, and I think I will be receiving some poor feedback, in spite of my willingness to better understand what she wants and how to make her happy.

Have any of you come across this? Do I just grin and bear it and most likely get horrible feedback after several hours of underpaid work?

Any advice would be very helpful. Thank you!

[datasciencewonk · Accepted solution]

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@sarah M wrote:

Hello!

I'm currently working with someone who is new to Upwork. She has given me directions for a ghost writing job, and I completed it to the best of my abilities.

She is brand new to Upwork, and does not have good communication skills. She told me to write it in a certain tone and then after I write 1,000+ words for her, she is severely dissapointed and wanted it in a different tone and wanted it a different length. Even though we initially talked about 1,000-1,500 and that this was a "rough draft".

I am ready and willing to work with her, but she takes 4-5 days to respond, and I get the feeling she won't be happy with whatever I do. Thus far, I've worked about 6 hours on this project, and I think I will be receiving some poor feedback, in spite of my willingness to better understand what she wants and how to make her happy.

Have any of you come across this? Do I just grin and bear it and most likely get horrible feedback after several hours of underpaid work?

Any advice would be very helpful. Thank you!

---

 1. I don't take on work that falls into the "underpaid" category (that's not to say I didn't when I was a newbie, but I've learned some serious lessons very quickly).

2. As a writer, I always ask for specific samples of writing that the client wants in terms of tone/style. Did you do that?

3. This sounds like scope creep. Again, on fixed rate contracts, I don't write any more than the maximum number of words agreed to. I tell my clients that fixed rate contracts require clear parameters about the deliverable. Every writer is different in terms of how many edits they will provide. I only offer ONE copy-edit (not revision, not adding to the word count...it's a stone cold, first level, minor copy-edit).

4. As far as what you should do, that depends on you. You've already stated that you're not confident she'll approve of the writing once it's submitted (or did you already submit it and she sent it back for revisions?). Also, if it's a fixed rate, did you officially submit the deliverable through the payment request screen? Or did you just send it to her via Upwork messaging? 

5. No. I don't grin and bear anything. My fixed rate contracts have supremely clear agreements as to the end result the client is seeking. If I'm not meeting that criterion, then I communicate that to the client (and if they decide to end the contract -- then I guess you could say that, yes, I suck it up and learn from my mistakes). If they change any of the agreement (e.g. adding to the word count, trying to play the endless revision game -- I'm not saying that's what is occurring here), then I point out the original agreement.

So...

Now that you're in mid contract with this client you can...

A. Finish the work and make a final submission. But, you'll have to set a boundary and state it's the final submission -- again, this appears to be scope creep -- but that could be a totally wrong assumption. 

B. End the contract after discussing the issue with the client.

C. Allow this client to work you to death until she reaches some subjective point of "happiness" -- which is a slippery slope. 

[saratopia35]

Hi Cat, thank you for your message!

These are all good suggestions, and ones I need to take into consideration for the future because I'm not sure how this one is going to work moving forward. This is definitely a learning experience. All of my contracts have been talked about ahead of time via Upwork messaging, but the actual contract is pretty sparse since we've already discussed stuff. I NOW UNDERSTAND, things really do need to be laid out in black and white because interacting with different humans can be complicated. haha.

By underpaid, I mean by the time I do all of the edits (since I'm getting paid per word and not hourly), it's going to be not very much for the amount of efforts I put in.

I've been on Upwork for about 6 months now and I haven't had any issues until this point. At first she was open and we discussed exactly what she wanted, and she sent me the materials. The tone was conveyed perfectly, I even gave her examples to make sure that I was on the right track. But now she is doing a 180, and sadly I'm not sure how to proceed.

I've already submitted the milestone (with the understanding that it was a first draft) and she (after 5 days of silence) said it wasn't at all what she wanted and needs a lot to be changed. Deeply frustrating.

Sadly, I know how much reviews mean to this community in order to get more clients, but I can tell this is going to end poorly. It's like watching something bad happening in slow motion!

If I end the contract prematurely, suck it up that I won't get paid (potentially?) then is that an immediate negative review? I have never had to end a contract before without something being completed.

Thanks!

Sarah

[datasciencewonk]

I'm sure other Upwork veteran writers will chime in with varying perspectives which can directly answer your concerns. 

There are times when clients move in a direction that is different from what was discussed. If that happens, I assess my next steps based on several different factors directly related to our communications. 

What I've learned is to state the parameters of fixed rate versus hourly contracts from the get go. 

I'll only end a contract if it's the last resort (e.g. the client continues to press for a word count beyond what was agreed to via the fixed rate contract).

I'm in a bit of a different position as I have a plethora of simultaneous contracts for writing. So, one client cannot dominate my time as I have other responsibilities/contracts. Also, because of time limitation, I only accept writing contracts for topics that are within my expertise (other writers will differ and accept contracts for topics that might not be in their wheelhouse, but I don't have the time to learn something "new" on the job at the moment).

Summarily, my threshold for ending a contract is probably different from yours. But, if this is a time drain and the deliverable still isn't what she was looking for, do you want to try and continue to please this client who, if I'm reading this correctly, changed an agreed upon aspect in mid contract?

[saratopia35]

"What I've learned is to state the parameters of fixed rate versus hourly contracts from the get go. "

Yes, this is something I need to get down concretely moving forward. Usually I'm pretty flexible and people are able to work pretty easily with me, but this is potentially a different case.

I will definitely have to sit down and think about how much further my capabilites can reach with this client. I am fully able to fulfill her needs in theory, but in practice I'm finding she may be unsatisfied regardless of the material I produce. Which is a pity: I love the subject matter!

I will have to see how much time I can devote to this before it is a time drain and inevitable emotion drain too!

Thanks again.

[m_njari]

Sarah M: 

I've been on Upwork for about 6 months now and I haven't had any issues until this point. At first she was open and we discussed exactly what she wanted, and she sent me the materials. The tone was conveyed perfectly, I even gave her examples to make sure that I was on the right track. But now she is doing a 180, and sadly I'm not sure how to proceed.

I've already submitted the milestone (with the understanding that it was a first draft) and she (after 5 days of silence) said it wasn't at all what she wanted and needs a lot to be changed. Deeply frustrating.

Sadly, I know how much reviews mean to this community in order to get more clients, but I can tell this is going to end poorly. It's like watching something bad happening in slow motion!

You see the red highlight up there...? This is difficult to deal with and I know it from personal experience - the  reason I'm laughing. It messes up your day and your week till you are in such poor mental shape, other great jobs pass you by unnoticed. I'd say, feel free to cut your losses when you can still think straight... A great JSS is wonderful and helpful - but you can still survive without it for a while. [In that while you'll find better clients who'll make you love Upwork]

• In your original post, you said the client is new on Upwork. I think you should take it upon yourself to show her the normal way of working. Like you tell her the response over a 1,000 word article that requires an edit should take 48hrs at most. (That's my personal judgment 'coz if there's any tweaking needed I often receive a response in a couple of hours). 

• If the changes are very many and in a different direction, take care you don't end up producing a 2nd 1,000 word article for the price of one. After all you mentioned you had an elaborate discussion with the client before you started working, and you even sent her samples (which she concurred with, I suppose). 

• If you decide you have had enough, instead of rushing to end the contract, tell the client you have done the most and the best you can. Then let her end the contract herself. She's likely to pay you in full but the feedback could go any way. But if you end the contract prematurely yourself, you'll miss the pay and still receive poor feedback. 

[saratopia35]

Thank you so much for this thoughtful reply. At this point she said she can't get back to me until this thursday (sigh!), so it definitely seems like there's no end in sight...I think if this does go longer than 2 in a half weeks, I will probably just have to cut my losses, tell her I am unable to help as you suggested, and move on.

My experience on Upwork has been GREAT so far, I've really enjoyed working with people all over the world. I would hate the negative feedback... (For the past 6 months I've had 100% and this week it's down to 83% for reasons unknown to me... this is a whole other psychological thing I need to be aware of! haha!)

Anyway, without getting further off topic. Thank you so much for your advice!

[amusawale]

we're in the same boat almost exactly. My client gave me a manuscript to edit then decided she wanted to cut half the book and then blamed me for not knowing that she would want to cut half the book. Unreasonable doesn't begin to cover it. I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. She actually had the nerve to ask for a refund.