accompany with or by

[zelomi]

Hello:

 I am sure this has been discussed to death somewhere, but I didn't see it here, and this is something that always bugs me (Britsh English, not a swear word).

 Accompanied by I always use it with people, and mostly everything. 

 However, I have seen accompany with mostly related to menus (at least in Britain). And so I use this form only when is related to food. 

 When I took one of the English tests (can't remember which one), this particular question came up in regards with food and so I selected with instead of by, and of course was marked wrong. 

 What are your thoughts on this? Internet searches shed the shame light I did above, so nothing new there. 

Is the 'with' version more a regional thing (i.e Britain) or do you use it in other English speaking countries? 

Do you use this form at all?

 Any thoughts on this will be super welcome. 

 Thanks!

[kfarnell]

I always use 'by' but  have also seen' with' used in the way you describe. It seems to be 'with' when the things are closely related. There's a reference to it here: http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/GRAMMAR/grammarlogs4/grammarlogs513.htm

However, 'with' is certainly used in older texts, especially in the nineteenth century, so it looks as if it's simply fallen out of fashion.

[zelomi]

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@Kim F wrote:

I always use 'by' but  have also seen' with' used in the way you describe. It seems to be 'with' when the things are closely related. There's a reference to it here: http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/GRAMMAR/grammarlogs4/grammarlogs513.htm

However, 'with' is certainly used in older texts, especially in the nineteenth century, so it looks as if it's simply fallen out of fashion.

---

 Thanks Kim. That's what I thought.  And yes, I checked the link as well

[researchediting]

Carol,

The distinction made by you and Bernstein (cited in The Grammar Logs) is logical. Inert objects cannot "perform" even the relatively passive action of accompanying, so it is not done "by" them. Prepositions, however, are frequently arbitrary, and as Kim points out, subject to arbitrary changes in usage.

Best,

MM

[zelomi]

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@Douglas Michael M wrote:

Carol,

The distinction made by you and Bernstein (cited in The Grammar Logs) is logical. Inert objects cannot "perform" even the relatively passive action of accompanying, so it is not done "by" them. Prepositions, however, are frequently arbitrary, and as Kim points out, subject to arbitrary changes in usage.

Best,

MM

---

 Thank you,  Douglas.  

Yes, you are correct.  I just had issues with this in the past when people edited my work. And even when I tried explaining the difference still was told to use by.

[lysis10]

i do whatever the editor wants

[zelomi]

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@Jennifer M wrote:

i do whatever the editor wants

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 Yes, is a lot less hassle in the end

[kfarnell]

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@Jennifer M wrote:

i do whatever the editor wants

---

>  Yes, is a lot less hassle in the end

Except, often you ARE the editor...

[lysis10]

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@Kim F wrote:

>  Yes, is a lot less hassle in the end

Except, often you ARE the editor...

---

 I just got snarky and blew a contract with some imbecile who asked me if I usually have my stuff edited. I said yes, of course because that's the way it's supposed to be. She then told me that she was looking for a writer who could write top-notch content for professional sites. I then asked her if she thinks top-notch writers have editors and if professional sites have editors, because you know I'm pretty sure that they do. I got silence in return. Idiot.

I'm pretty sure she's a freelancer too by the way she was talking to  me, which pretty much explains the dumb comment.

[e_luneborg]

The good thing about having English as my third language, and not being native, is that I can write and say whatever I want, and people will just be happy that they can understand me. 

[zelomi]

---

@Eve L wrote:

The good thing about having English as my third language, and not being native, is that I can write and say whatever I want, and people will just be happy that they can understand me. 

---

 😄 How many languages do you speak, if you don't mind me asking?

 I consider English my second language in terms of how much time I've spent usin it. But in order, is the fourth language I've learnt. Although I am not longer fluent or proficient in two of those (I can still read, understand and watch movies, but nowhere near as good as English or Spanish). 

[e_luneborg]

I'm native Norwegian, but this is actually the language I use the least, when it comes to speaking, I do however ony write in this language.

I am also bilingual in Swedish, as I have lived in Sweden for a bit over 10 years, and this was the first language I learned to write in, as I attended my first years at school there. On my profile I updated this to fluent, just because I don't want to take on any Swedish writing jobs. Most of my friends where I live are swedes though, so I use this language quite a bit. Also my mom is Japanese, but I don't speak that language (unfortunately), so with her I only speak Swedish.

And I live in an English speaking country, so this is the language I am actually using the most. My boyfriend is German, and our flatmate is Finnish, so we only use English at home.

[colettelewis]

---

@Eve L wrote:

I'm native Norwegian, but this is actually the language I use the least, when it comes to speaking, I do however ony write in this language.

I am also bilingual in Swedish, as I have lived in Sweden for a bit over 10 years, and this was the first language I learned to write in, as I attended my first years at school there. On my profile I updated this to fluent, just because I don't want to take on any Swedish writing jobs. Most of my friends where I live are swedes though, so I use this language quite a bit. Also my mom is Japanese, but I don't speak that language (unfortunately), so with her I only speak Swedish.

And I live in an English speaking country, so this is the language I am actually using the most. My boyfriend is German, and our flatmate is Finnish, so we only use English at home.

---

You actually live in a Maltese-speaking country. English is the lingua franca for most people in Malta, but it is not a first language. I lived in Malta for years before returning to France. Learning some Maltese in those days was de rigueur if you wanted to really be accepted and it is not an easy language, as it is ancient, with many borrowed terms and has only relatively recently been a "written" language. I am talking in historic terms. The "relative" would be long before you were born. . 😉

[e_luneborg]

---

@Nichola L wrote:

You actually live in a Maltese-speaking country. English is the lingua franca for most people in Malta, but it is not a first language. I lived in Malta for years before returning to France. Learning some Maltese in those days was de rigueur if you wanted to really be accepted and it is not an easy language, as it is ancient, with many borrowed terms and has only relatively recently been a "written" language. I am talking in historic terms. The "relative" would be long before you were born. . 😉

---

 Hmm. I thought it counted as an english speaking country since it's an official language in Malta, but maybe not. I'm not sure about the definition of an english speaking country.

As for maltese I don't speak a single word, other than 'mela'. And not even the maltese are sure about the meaning of that one... If you actually learned some maltese while you were livig here I'll be super impressed. I don't know any foreigners here that can understand this mysterious language.

(I'm sure I wrote a reply to this post 10 minutes ago, but have no idea where it went. Sorry if this will end up as a duplicate).

[reinierb]

If you are confused about languages spoken in your country, here are some facts about who speaks what language in my country-

The most widely spoken language is isiZulu, an indigenous African language. The language does not have words for among other things, "shoes", "shirt", or "thank you".

Afrikaans is the third biggest language in the country, with more people of colour having it as a native language than people of European descent.

English is only the fourth biggest langauge, yet we are classified as an English-speaking country in some circles.

Most people of colour speak four to five African languages fluently to make themselves understood in neighbourhoods where up to 20 or more African languages can be in common use.

[versailles]

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@Reinier B wrote:

English is only the fourth biggest langauge, yet we are classified as an English-speaking country in some circles.

---

How many languages do you speak and if you speak more than one, which one is your native language?

Also, after reading this, I'm starting to find my dear monolingual France very boring 🙂

[zelomi]

---

@Eve L wrote:

---

@Nichola L wrote:

You actually live in a Maltese-speaking country. English is the lingua franca for most people in Malta, but it is not a first language. I lived in Malta for years before returning to France. Learning some Maltese in those days was de rigueur if you wanted to really be accepted and it is not an easy language, as it is ancient, with many borrowed terms and has only relatively recently been a "written" language. I am talking in historic terms. The "relative" would be long before you were born. . 😉

---

 Hmm. I thought it counted as an english speaking country since it's an official language in Malta, but maybe not. I'm not sure about the definition of an english speaking country.

As for maltese I don't speak a single word, other than 'mela'. And not even the maltese are sure about the meaning of that one... If you actually learned some maltese while you were livig here I'll be super impressed. I don't know any foreigners here that can understand this mysterious language.

(I'm sure I wrote a reply to this post 10 minutes ago, but have no idea where it went. Sorry if this will end up as a duplicate).

---

 I spent 8 days backpacking across Malta a few years back. In terms of culture, weather and vegetations, I had the impression of being in South Spain, just with a funny language and rather expensive. But it has great history and it is fantastic for diving. 

And yes, I could not understand Maltese. I was happy again that everybody spoke english 🙂

[zelomi]

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@Eve L wrote:

I'm native Norwegian, but this is actually the language I use the least, when it comes to speaking, I do however ony write in this language.

I am also bilingual in Swedish, as I have lived in Sweden for a bit over 10 years, and this was the first language I learned to write in, as I attended my first years at school there. On my profile I updated this to fluent, just because I don't want to take on any Swedish writing jobs. Most of my friends where I live are swedes though, so I use this language quite a bit. Also my mom is Japanese, but I don't speak that language (unfortunately), so with her I only speak Swedish.

And I live in an English speaking country, so this is the language I am actually using the most. My boyfriend is German, and our flatmate is Finnish, so we only use English at home.

---

 Wow! That is impressive. 

I was in Norway a couple of years ago. And boy oh boy, I was happy everybody spoke English! Everybody was so friendly as well. And I was very jalous because everybody simply looked gorgeous. I mean, movie-star gorgeous. I guess they have the same feeling when they go to other countries and people suddenly have dark skin. 🙂

[hodgesh]

How do you know that you got the question wrong?

[zelomi]

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@Heaven H wrote:

How do you know that you got the question wrong?

---

 Hi Heaven:

 That is a beautiful name, by the way.

 I don't remember exactly how I know. It was one of the English tests I took, but not sure if US or UK version, or the translations ones. But I remember it was the only question I had to sit and think about. Because, as stated above, I would have used the 'with' when it came to food. At the end, I only had one question wrong. I looked at the stats and what it was for, so maybe I just assumed it was that particular question.

[researchediting]

The United States has the second-largest Spanish-speaking population (by country) in the world, after Mexico: some 37.6 million who speak Spanish at home, or about 8.3 percent of the population, based on Census Bureau data. Spanish is of course the oldest continuously spoken European language in the Americas.

The US has no official language, although some three out of five states specify English as such.

[zelomi]

You know, in terms of extension, Spain had the largest empire in the world. Then of course, we lost it all.  

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@Douglas Michael M wrote:

The US has no official language, although some three out of five states specify English as such.

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 I never knew that.