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low payment

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
31 of 51

@Cory K wrote:

There are clients who are willing to pay fair rates and clients who are not. Sadly, some of the latter are encouraged to continue doing what they do by freelancers who don't know any better and undercharge for their work. I've just accepted an invitation from one of these people, only to withdraw my proposal a few minutes later: he said he'd like me to do a short sample, and I asked him to confirm that he was happy with the price I quoted him, since it was above the budget he'd put on the job (which I assumed was a placeholder, since it worked out to less than 2¢/word). He told me it was too high.

 

That's a very smart move that should be much more widely implemented. 

 

When I let him know that he shouldn't really be hiring a translator if he can't afford to pay a decent rate, he told me his usual translator works for those absurd prices, but she's on vacation right now. [sigh]

 

I think you mean "When I let him know that in my opinion he shouldn't really be..." I'm constantly baffled by the need so many freelancers have to manage how other people do business.

 

Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
32 of 51

I don't get why people engage. I usually just throw out an LOL and move on. Why even ask if someone is happy with the quote? I don't get it. Just tell them what it costs, what they need to do so you both can move forward, and then go off and do your thing. They will either disappear or send an offer. 

 

These people start asking if the client is ok with the price, or tell people prices are negotiable, or offer any other discount before the client even responds is just a sign of weakness. So weak and beta. No wonder why most of these people get railroaded. 

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
33 of 51

Yeah... my prices aren't negotiable. Neither my profile nor my proposals have any suggestion that my prices are negotiable.

 

I charge what I charge.


I provide estimates of how long tasks will take (in hours). And I provide specifix fixed-price quotes.

 

Clients can then choose to hire me or not. It's not complicated. And it doesn't present any kind of problems. I think clients appreciate the certainty about what their options are.

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
34 of 51

Jennifer/Preston: I think in the scenario described, the freelancer was attempting to get confirmation that the client wasn't going to try to talk him down later before investing further time in the the "interview" process, which makes good sense. 

Active Member
Cory K Member Since: Jun 22, 2017
35 of 51

@Tiffany S wrote:

Jennifer/Preston: I think in the scenario described, the freelancer was attempting to get confirmation that the client wasn't going to try to talk him down later before investing further time in the the "interview" process, which makes good sense. 



Yeah, that's why I asked. I had a feeling he wasn't actually going to pay what I wanted and just didn't bother looking at the price. If I hadn't asked, I would have wasted my time doing a sample for someone who I wasn't going to work with anyway.

Active Member
Luis B Member Since: Dec 29, 2016
36 of 51

  Complaining is fine but likely to change anything.

  The truth is quite simple. This platform employs people from all over the world. Keeping that in mind, one must realize that living standards differ from country to country. What might be considered low in Switzerland is likely a lot of money in Lithuania.

  Most employers may even request native speakers on their posts but end up settling for fluent.

  There are a ton of freelancers here that actually represent agencies in India who "magically" seem to have people fluent in every single known language. Now, anyone familiar with freelance platforms knows that you simply can't compete with people from India when it comes to prices. (Quality however...)

  But there's no reason to despair. Try to build good long-term relationships here. When you feel like it's time, start asking for a slightly better rate. Usually they are fine with it if they like your work.

  Also, translation work is much more rewarding if you cut the middleman, and there's an abundance of them here. Most people here are posting jobs that they get from someone else and they still want a piece of the action. Add Upwork's fee to that and you truly end up miserable.

  Do some leg work. Go around town looking for companies and offering your services. You'd be surprised at how many companies prefer to rely on people nearby than someone pretending to have 1000 highly qualified employees working in India.

 

Community Guru
Reinier B Member Since: Nov 3, 2015
37 of 51

@Luis B wrote:

  Do some leg work. Go around town looking for companies and offering your services.


 A few years ago I did just that. I did not get any writing contracts, but I did end up presenting a weekly talk show on astronomy on a local radio station for more than three years. Best job I ever had.

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The problem with silver linings is that they always come with dark clouds attached - RB
Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
38 of 51

@Luis B wrote:

  Complaining is fine but likely to change anything.

  The truth is quite simple. This platform employs people from all over the world. Keeping that in mind, one must realize that living standards differ from country to country. What might be considered low in Switzerland is likely a lot of money in Lithuania.

  Most employers may even request native speakers on their posts but end up settling for fluent.

  There are a ton of freelancers here that actually represent agencies in India who "magically" seem to have people fluent in every single known language. Now, anyone familiar with freelance platforms knows that you simply can't compete with people from India when it comes to prices. (Quality however...)

  But there's no reason to despair. Try to build good long-term relationships here. When you feel like it's time, start asking for a slightly better rate. Usually they are fine with it if they like your work.

  Also, translation work is much more rewarding if you cut the middleman, and there's an abundance of them here. Most people here are posting jobs that they get from someone else and they still want a piece of the action. Add Upwork's fee to that and you truly end up miserable.

  Do some leg work. Go around town looking for companies and offering your services. You'd be surprised at how many companies prefer to rely on people nearby than someone pretending to have 1000 highly qualified employees working in India.

 


 lol funny cuz true

I get spammed by the scourge SEOs every day. This one indian claimed to have 1500 web designers on staff. LOL

 

Sometimes I play with them and waste their time. If they promise me first page in Google, I get their website and then report them to Google for selling links and if I'm feeling especially country that day, I get some of their customers and report them for buying links.

 

Don't spam me, scourge.

Active Member
Evelyn M Member Since: Oct 21, 2017
39 of 51

Hi Veerle,

 

I completely agree with everything you've written. I would love to blame the clients, but in reality as freelancers, we are completely at fault.

 

Just yesterday, I was invited for a job writing an article of 1000 words. The price the client was paying was $0.70 for the entire 1000 word article. At first, I thought it was a typo, and continued reading the very long job post to see if I had misread the information. I hadn't. 

 

I was appalled and insulted and wondered what made this client think, that this was something she could get away with. The answer is; that freelancers will take on a job like that, and settle for the pay. This gives other clients the green light to offer such ridiculous and insulting compensation, to someone who has the talent to command much higher rates of pay.

 

The client stated in the job description, that she was aware that the rate was extremely low, but that it was because, she was going to be providing a lot of work to the freelancer. So, since when does being awarded more work mean, that we have to settle for less pay? It doesn't.

 

I have clients for whom I will do a series of articles on any given subject, and they always want to negotiate a fixed price for the entire series. That is not a problem for me, because I am still getting compensated well and won't settle for anything less than what I feel I am worth.  

 

Recently, I wrote a letter to Upwork regarding this very issue. I am infuriated. I let them know, that this website is turning into a "content mill", and that if they allow this to continue, they are going to be losing some incredibly talented freelancers.

 

In addition, when I click on a job post that interests me, if the pay is insulting and ridiculous, I click on the "thumbs down" icon just beside the "heart" icon that saves the job. When you click on the "thumb" icon, there are multiple choices listed that one could select, as a reason for disliking the job post. I always select "budget too low". It only takes a few seconds to do this, and this feedback is sent to Upwork. If they start getting bombarded by freelancers who provide the same feedback, maybe they will do something about it.

 

As for us freelancers- it's up to us to put a stop to this nonsense. We need to place a higher value on our work and our time. I will never take a job that doesn't compensate my writing or research efforts as deserved. That is what has us in the predicament we find ourselves in.

 

Value your work and selves- You're worth it!

Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
40 of 51

@Evelyn M wrote:

Hi Veerle,

 

I completely agree with everything you've written. I would love to blame the clients, but in reality as freelancers, we are completely at fault.

 

Just yesterday, I was invited for a job writing an article of 1000 words. The price the client was paying was $0.70 for the entire 1000 word article. At first, I thought it was a typo, and continued reading the very long job post to see if I had misread the information. I hadn't. 

 

I was appalled and insulted and wondered what made this client think, that this was something she could get away with. The answer is; that freelancers will take on a job like that, and settle for the pay. This gives other clients the green light to offer such ridiculous and insulting compensation, to someone who has the talent to command much higher rates of pay.

 

The client stated in the job description, that she was aware that the rate was extremely low, but that it was because, she was going to be providing a lot of work to the freelancer. So, since when does being awarded more work mean, that we have to settle for less pay? It doesn't.

 

I have clients for whom I will do a series of articles on any given subject, and they always want to negotiate a fixed price for the entire series. That is not a problem for me, because I am still getting compensated well and won't settle for anything less than what I feel I am worth.  

 

Recently, I wrote a letter to Upwork regarding this very issue. I am infuriated. I let them know, that this website is turning into a "content mill", and that if they allow this to continue, they are going to be losing some incredibly talented freelancers.

 

In addition, when I click on a job post that interests me, if the pay is insulting and ridiculous, I click on the "thumbs down" icon just beside the "heart" icon that saves the job. When you click on the "thumb" icon, there are multiple choices listed that one could select, as a reason for disliking the job post. I always select "budget too low". It only takes a few seconds to do this, and this feedback is sent to Upwork. If they start getting bombarded by freelancers who provide the same feedback, maybe they will do something about it.

 

As for us freelancers- it's up to us to put a stop to this nonsense. We need to place a higher value on our work and our time. I will never take a job that doesn't compensate my writing or research efforts as deserved. That is what has us in the predicament we find ourselves in.

 

Value your work and selves- You're worth it!


 The sad truth is that, as we have signed up to Upwork's 'values', it is not our place to "put a stop to this nonsense" (much as I agree with you). The only way we freelancers can do this, is by preaching it on the Internet, not on Upwork. Upwork is not going to change its business model, which appears to be working nicely for its owners.

 

We are not obliged to be part of Upwork's corporate mentality - but we stick around - or not . . . Smiley Sad

 

 

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